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The EA
Nov 3, 2005 10:00:49 GMT -1
Post by Hoppy on Nov 3, 2005 10:00:49 GMT -1
Please take time to vote in this poll.
It would also be interesting to see if you would be prepared to support a pressure groups, whose intention would be to lobby the EA to provide more Bailiffs on our river banks.
Hoppy
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The EA
Nov 3, 2005 10:22:15 GMT -1
Post by whitehunter on Nov 3, 2005 10:22:15 GMT -1
Since I have been of the age where I had to have a rod licience in order to fish , Amonst all the various cumbrian fisheries ,At 30 I have been challenged just once!!!!....
Money gets poured into the EA every year and we see nothing of anything coming back from it around these parts......
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The EA
Nov 3, 2005 13:32:20 GMT -1
Post by dangler on Nov 3, 2005 13:32:20 GMT -1
Have I misunderstood this post? The comments on this and the following post appear to support lobbying for increased bailiffing, but prior to my vote 100% were against! Mike
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The EA
Nov 3, 2005 13:56:54 GMT -1
Post by Hoppy on Nov 3, 2005 13:56:54 GMT -1
I voted No - We need More!
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The EA
Nov 3, 2005 14:20:09 GMT -1
Post by JT Unplugged on Nov 3, 2005 14:20:09 GMT -1
Thats a bit of a sweeping statement...care to qualify what you mean?
I wholeheatedly agree that more baliffs would benefit our rivers but, given their "ring-fenced" funding structure are we prepared to take a hit with the licence fees for the interim period whilst they recoup from licence dodgers/poachers/polluters?
Go to the EA website and ask the regional fisheries guy where his share of "the pot" goes...
He'd probably welcome the interest
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The EA
Nov 3, 2005 15:51:49 GMT -1
Post by whitehunter on Nov 3, 2005 15:51:49 GMT -1
Thats a bit of a sweeping statement...care to qualify what you mean? I wholeheatedly agree that more baliffs would benefit our rivers but, given their "ring-fenced" funding structure are we prepared to take a hit with the licence fees for the interim period whilst they recoup from licence dodgers/poachers/polluters? Go to the EA website and ask the regional fisheries guy where his share of "the pot" goes... He'd probably welcome the interest Simple.. ive taken a hit every year ive bought these liciences in order to legally enjoy my pursuits , scrimped and saved in march season after season.. and every year is filled with the same old stories from the banks which im not prepared to disscuss on open forum...... Considering also.......has there ever been considered a habitat improvement programme, spawning ground work ect, targeting the Irt, Esk, Duddon, Annas, Mite, Ehen, Calder, Whicham beck, which by the way are seemingly under the mandatory catch and release cosh for 2008? Who's watching the Duddon estuary? Challenged once in 17 years? Must I continue? I vote for more bailifs and i have many reasons.....
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The EA
Nov 3, 2005 16:35:39 GMT -1
Post by Gwyniadun on Nov 3, 2005 16:35:39 GMT -1
JT,
It may be that there is a problem on the 'funding front' and feelings are running pretty strong on various issues and there will be differing viewpoints, over these issues.
Main point ....we need more bailiffs... how did you vote then?
Gwyniadun
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The EA
Nov 3, 2005 20:03:15 GMT -1
Post by highplains on Nov 3, 2005 20:03:15 GMT -1
JT unplugged,
The river policing budget is not ringfenced. You may like to know, it has just been cut.
Apply enough pressure in the right place and you will soon see an increased budget!
Don't provide excuses for them!
How many miles of river are there in North Wales? How many poaching convictions were made - related to rivers - over the last one, two three years.
So, if EA enforcement results is anything to go by there is no poaching in North Wales.
I'll eat my hat.
Regards.
Highplains
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The EA
Nov 3, 2005 22:09:56 GMT -1
Post by PB unplugged on Nov 3, 2005 22:09:56 GMT -1
We need more of pretty well EVERYTHING - police, teachers, lecturers, nurses, midwives, doctors, people who will clean our asses when we're old etc etc - EA bailiffs, too - but are we Brits willing to pay a penny more to pay for them? No. We want to pay less. Some of us, much less. So we get less. A lot less, in some departments. Year on year. So, feeling that it is all going / has already gone / to the dogs, we whinge and whine. A vicious circle? No. Just a peculiarly, pathetically British one.
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The EA
Nov 3, 2005 22:24:42 GMT -1
Post by Hoppy on Nov 3, 2005 22:24:42 GMT -1
Paul, I would pay more if the EA could guarantee more bailiffs and less beaurocracy? Im sure a lot of anglers would pay more if we could get better protection for our rivers.
What interests me is -
1. How many Migratory Licences are sold in the UK? 2. How many anglers have there licences checked per annum? 3. How many of these are on a migratory (fish) river system? 4. How many are on still waters? (Should it not be the fishery owners who are responsible for checking licences - how much work would this save....i.e produce your licence before fishing) 5. How many bailiffs are there in full time employment by the EA 6. How many non operational managers are there?
This would give us a real idea. Perhaps if a pressure group is formed, this information could be obtained via the Freedom of Information Act!!!
No one here is criticising bailiffs, we are supporting them, we want more so the bailiffs we have already are supported and can perform their roles more effectively, thus protecting our river banks.
If finance is an issue, could they not be target other river users....canoeists, gorge walkers etc.
Not only does our licence fund fishing, but im sure other issues as fly tipping etc.
Im sure if there was intelligence to suggest that organised gangs were poaching the rivers, the EA would struggle to find the resources to implement a surveillance operation in North Wales, Health and Safety legislation and the Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act would require heavy staff levels, are staff levels are dangerously low.
Hoppy
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The EA
Nov 4, 2005 12:01:14 GMT -1
Post by JT on Nov 4, 2005 12:01:14 GMT -1
Right, I'm not trying to make any excuses for anybody. I fully and wholeheartedly agree that we need more policing and baliffs on our waters....I voted "no" for the record. However, having worked for the EA for two years I have had a little insight into their funding structure (albeit not any recent policing cuts) and, whilst I would also agree that some areas are "suffering" more than others there is a lot they do do with the money they get - bearing in mind they deal with both coarse and game fishing. I also know that they want to do more - as individuals and as an organisation - ham-strung by finance or not. Look - the organisation prides itself on transparency, so if you have any beef and want to know why there have been cuts or why there aren't enough baliffs then as David Evans or speak to your local baliff - eg Dave Mees for South Wales. I too scrimp and save to afford my licence and I do get the benefits of stocking and monitoring programmes, conservation measures where appropriate and habitat improvement where their budget has permitted/warranted but perhaps we game fishermen don't see as much benefit as the majority coarse fishing population who have far cheaper licences. Our licence fee can only be spent on fishery-related expenditure - not fly tipping or waste management etc - the revenue from these go to their respective EA areas in Air Quality, Land Quality, Waste and Water Management etc. The EA does monitor and attempt to mitigate poaching and broadcasts successful prosecutions weekly on their website - from repeatedly caught "yoofs" fishing handlined worms on the Ogmore to berks shooting salmon with an air rifle from a bridge "oop north", to recovering illegal nets and catches - see for yourself:- www.environment-agency.gov.uk/subjects/fish/fishnews/?lang=_e...and yes they do surveillance operations. Look I agree that its probably still not enough for the return on my £65 migratory licence but isn't it better to look for and try to stop the root causes of the issues our rivers face and work together as angling associations, fishermen, conservation organisations and Government rather than wag a pinkie at one of the bodies that's trying to do something about it? I don't doubt that there are strong views and perceptions on this subject - if you want the facts ask for them and additionally don't doubt the EA's committment to fishing and river conservation. J
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The EA
Nov 4, 2005 15:11:33 GMT -1
Post by Gwyniadun on Nov 4, 2005 15:11:33 GMT -1
Thanks for that JT, you speak obviously about your area, each area differs, our in North Wales especially, we have 'NO' dedicated 'EA Enforcement Officer' on the Dee System, that includes the Estuary, please see the thread on the www.angling.ukf.net/ 'Fisheries Officers' there is a major problem up here. Gwyniadun
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The EA
Nov 4, 2005 16:48:06 GMT -1
Post by Paul Dunstan on Nov 4, 2005 16:48:06 GMT -1
That there are not enough bailiffs is obvious - so I voted NO.
However, whereas I support the notion of lobbying the EA let's not forget that they're not the only ones to be lobbied. We should also be lobbying our elected representatives to provide the EA with the resources that we all know they need to do an effective job.
I understand what PB was saying in his post - all parties are scrambling for a slice of a cake, which unless it is a politically fruitful or topical cake - health, education, law and order, defense etc - ie a vote winner - seems to diminish rather than expand. More money for education - no, it's the same money, called something different and 'ring fenced' for a specific task - which means less money for something else.
Although the EA and the bailliffing of our rivers is close to our hearts it's a very small part of the broader funding picture. If the EA were to increase licence fees to achieve sufficient income to bailliff to the levels we would like I'm pretty sure there'd soon be an awful lot of salmon tackle available on Ebay!
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The EA
Nov 5, 2005 11:48:01 GMT -1
Post by highplains on Nov 5, 2005 11:48:01 GMT -1
JT Parr,
Don't be defensive! The EA does a lot of good work and most of its staff are hardworking and dedicated. I have a few EA friends and I know they care about the work they do. But that's not the point.
You can not make a silk purse from a sows ear as the old saying goes. The EA needs more funding. In Wales the Fishing Wales Project is claiming that of the £69 million spend by angling visitors to Wales £27.3million is directly attributable to this initiative. The cost of this combined effort £800,000 each year for 3 years. £2.4 million. Not a bad return!
What point is there encouraging people to come to Wales to fish if the fish stocks are not being protected. There is one club in my area where members have resigned because they have been frightened off the river by poachers!
Look at the support on this and other sites a pressure group is being given.
It seems to me it will be in your best interests to help the group, without compromising your work of course.
The EA staff try hard. The EA management are driven by performance indicators. I would like to see a performance indicator relating to their success at catching poachers in the estuaries and on rivers.
We would be in a mess without the EA. Keep up the good work. You need more staff to do a real good job. Fishing licenses are not the only form of income for the EA so anglers don't necessarily have to pay!
All the best
Highplains
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durk
Smolt
Posts: 87
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The EA
Nov 5, 2005 15:39:06 GMT -1
Post by durk on Nov 5, 2005 15:39:06 GMT -1
The one's we have got do a great job, I've only ever been challenged once on Dysinni three years ago and he was very helpful, even took me to see a shoal of around 50 seatrout, later caught my first ever daytime ST on fly, thanks largely to him. I'd pay more to see more any day. BTW highplains, are you the drifter sometimes seen on the Clwyd wearing a large overcoat we may have met?
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The EA
Nov 5, 2005 18:23:43 GMT -1
Post by highplains on Nov 5, 2005 18:23:43 GMT -1
Well Durk my covers blown. Blast!!
Given Chester as your location I guess you may know a little about trains? If not give us a clue.
Are you a sea trout man, or is that a daft question given the site name? If so how went last season?
Regards.
Highplains
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The EA
Nov 5, 2005 20:51:50 GMT -1
Post by madcaster on Nov 5, 2005 20:51:50 GMT -1
the EA are a joke at the moment ..for what we pay a year to fish for salmon and seatrout they should be embaressed ...our waters are not policed and its as simple as that and as long as we let them get away with it , it won't change.... i havnt been asked for my licence for years ...but ive seen them clowns doubled up at course fisheries,
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The EA
Nov 6, 2005 0:44:33 GMT -1
Post by wnion on Nov 6, 2005 0:44:33 GMT -1
The biggest joke is that they are not allowed to patrol the rivers alone at night because of health and safety reasons.Therefore if there is only one bailiff in a certain area he can only patrol in daylight, giving the poachers an open season at night !
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The EA
Nov 6, 2005 8:56:10 GMT -1
Post by PB unplugged on Nov 6, 2005 8:56:10 GMT -1
"Ah-ah, I know what you're thinking, punk. You're thinking, 'Did he fire six shots or only five?' And to tell you the truth, I've forgotten myself in all this excitement. But being as this is a .44 Magnum, the most powerful handgun in the world, and would blow your head clean off, you've got to ask yourself a question: Do I feel lucky? Well, do ya, PUNK?"
To borrow (and mangle) a line from 'Dirty' Harry Callagan's immortal ones above, "You've got to ask yourself a question: would I be an EA bailiff?"
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The EA
Nov 6, 2005 10:37:46 GMT -1
Post by wnion on Nov 6, 2005 10:37:46 GMT -1
You've got to ask yourself a question: would I be an EA bailiff?" Not many people would take the job, but those that have know what is expected of them before they start. I can't see that they are any different or at any greater risk than a policeman on his beat.They are also at risk of being shot ,stabbed ,smacked on the head........ What I am trying to draw attention to is, that there are not enough bailiffs around to carry out night patrols. We can't blame the bailiffs for this; the blame lies with the pen pushers in their cosy offices.
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