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Post by Torgoch on Apr 8, 2008 12:04:34 GMT -1
Its become a vicious circle that's been self generated by the EA, they have in the past ignored many complaints in the past because complaints were not treated seriously enough and graded by desk jockeys who had no bailiffing or fisheries management experience and who were said often to spend their days on waste sites or filling sample bottles!..... now the chickens come home to roost as anglers have absolutely no confidence whatsever to make a complaint when they see wrongdoing.
I recently asked a senior manager how they deal with poaching activity and information and he said the EA was now " Intelligence Led !" He described that the information received goes to an Intelligence Officer who grades the information and determines where best to send the staff.....
It doesn't seem to be working because theres little info coming in from what Gwyniadun has found out so is this person must be twiddling his thumbs redundantly while our rivers continue to be damaged unchecked at large.
My local bobby was bemused over the intelligence remarks and he said he doesn't know about this EA person so it would appear that there is little joined up activity that we read about other than when those " C ocklers" on the Dee are found from time to time
As far as the so called enforcement teams are concerned... what teams have we got in Nth Wales?
I can remember the bailiffs being 6 strong between the Dyfi and the Mawddach rivers and poachers got short thrift often... now we have one in Ganllwyd and the other in Penrhyndeudraeth so I fail to see any team progress or worthwhile protection.. in short its a total shambles and EA managers are misleading anglers wholesale!
Its about time Welsh MPs were contacted and given all the facts as the WAG bunch are as much use as a wet paper bag....toothless comes to mind so far to date.... we anglers can hold our breadth longer than the Assembly when it comes to taking a decision.
Have all the Welsh MP's been contacted though... thats a serious question as theres nothing been said in the campaign notes so far as I've read. this would need all MP's with constituencies bordering every river in the EA Wales region of operational responsibility
does anyone know if this is worth promoting to ensure a wholistic approach by the legislatures and maybe a parliamentary select committee
would be interesting to see the EA wiggle in front of the Welsh MP's Grand committee! not so toothless I'm told
Tight lines this season guys...
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Post by highplains on Apr 8, 2008 18:47:17 GMT -1
Torgoch,
Thanks for that posting, your timing is just perfect.
We are currently in the process of agreeing a date for the presentation of the Campaign for the Protection of Welsh Fisheries to the minister. I am also awaiting the OK from an AM to make public the letter he had from Elin AM, Minister for Rural Affairs, in reply to our request for a meeting. I will post it when I get the OK.
I emailed every Welsh AM last year, one at a time so that the email would not be picked up as SPAM, and posted most of the responses I got on the forum. I will continue to do so as they come up. You may be sure that we will continue to work on raising the profile of the Campaign.
The formal presentation to the Minister is to take place on the steps of the Senedd. So I am looking forward to a trip to Cardiff. This presentation will mark the Campaign launch, after which we will really get to work and seek some redress for the neglect of enforcement over the years.
I am sorry we have been relatively quiet over the past weeks but it has been a time of digging and making sure we got our facts right. (That's not the royal "we")
What do members think about turning out at the Senedd to show support? I will appreciate your views either on the forum or by PM.
I will keep you informed of progress as details are finalised.
In the mean time those few of you who may not have emailed or PM'd your support; please do so.
Watch this space and tight lines one and all
Highplains
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Post by DAZ on Apr 8, 2008 21:50:07 GMT -1
All well and good,I'll be there Allan.Hopefully a few of the other forum members will be there to,it would be good to put some faces to names.Make the effort if you can lads.  I have a few more signatures for you to as promised but,I would like to get a few more before I send them off to you!.I must apologize though,I have been a little slack with my efforts lately.  Good luck!. DAZ. |
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Post by highplains on Apr 8, 2008 22:11:49 GMT -1
Thanks DAZ,
You owe me no apology mate, I look forward to you posts which are always worth a read.
Let's see what we can do about numbers, I will contact you nearer the time.
Tight lines
Highplains
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cff
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Post by cff on Apr 9, 2008 11:31:11 GMT -1
Highplains
Since you are obviously very earnest in your campaign - aren't we all - and seeking our support, perhaps you would be kind enough to tell us, in order that we may properly advise our members :-
1, who you are (by PM if you like)
2, what in summary is your complaint,
3, what alternatives you are going to give the Minister, how they might be funded and perhaps most importantly,
4, who you would claim to be representing.
It is our understanding that WAG has been very generous in the support given to Welsh Fisheries, compared with that given by DEFRA to fisheries in England.
There are others coveting the use of our rivers (equally earnestly) and going to great lengths to gain open access to them thereby marginalising our valuable fisheries.
WCA is presenting an access petition to WAG tomorrow (11/4). On the face of it, the document is badly written and appears somewhat contradictory until you realise it is wholly in line with one small but important specific committment listed in WAGs "One Wales Delivery Plan 2007 - 2011".
It is vital we do not lose WAG's support - at present we have the moral high ground. There is a big difference between sounding off on a website forum and creating a public spectacle - let WCA do that.
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Post by Hoppy on Apr 9, 2008 12:36:32 GMT -1
There is a big difference between sounding off on a website forum and creating a public spectacle - let WCA do that. CFF - please excuse my ignorance, but could I ask you what is meant by the above paragraph? An explanation may prevent offence being taken by others. Hoppy |
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Post by cff on Apr 9, 2008 12:51:55 GMT -1
Hoppy
What I meant is quite simple.
I f you are going to meet the Minister, do it in a proper meeting with a carefully argued case and prepared agenda - not just a noisome knock on the front door and meeting on the grand Senedd steps - that's WCA's style - we're better than that. No offence was intended or should be taken.
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Post by Hoppy on Apr 9, 2008 14:05:54 GMT -1
Thanks for the clarification CFF. I will openly state that i have absolutely NO CONFIDENCE WHATSOEVER in the EAW/EA Managers. I have based this on what i have seen in a meeting, reports that they have presented and the state of some fisheries in England & Wales. This is my opinion and not necessarily the views of the Campaign. Here are some ideas - They have guessed at the levels of poaching and presented this to WAG.
- They have made ridiculous rises in the prices of concessionary licence fees
- I have grave doubts over the research conducted in respect of the protection of Salmon & Sea Trout Stocks after 2009 - is the information reliable??? (See other thread on this).
- They have ignored concerns over the Tees Barrage
- They have reduced the numbers of bailiffs in Wales dramatically
- They have blanket 'by-lawed' compulsory C&R on rivers pre 16th June - when it should have been conducted on a river to river, or at least, an area by area approach.
- They describe themselves as Intelligence led, when they have only just obtained a Intel Computer.
- And finally, whilst the taking of migratory fish by anglers may have had adverse effect on fish (not proven) - a knee kerk reaction, which may threaten the closure of some rivers in Wales is wrong. This should have been identified some time ago and looked at then.
I also beleive that they have in fact 'given up' looking at Salmon on some rivers, as they are passed helping - and they will concentrate on Sea Trout on these rivers. This is a failure. The list goes on.... Their attitude to Canoes also shows their reluctance to support anglers. We are just a thorn in their side. Highplains's campaign will no doubt highlight the plight faced by lack of enforcement in Wales. It is supported by thousands on anglers. It is for the benefit of the rivers, and for the benefit of anglers. We should all support this. Whilst the voluntary C&R schemes promoted on the West Wales rivers are to be applauded - who will police this? And the fish that are returned to the river - who will be watching them on their redds when they are poached. It matters not how many fish are returned if they are not subject to protection after their release. In some areas of Wales - this is being undertaken by clubs and other organisations - but it is the responsibility of the EA. Whilst many people will say that poaching isnt a problem, then they need to prove this, as much as Highplains and the campaign need to prove that poaching is a problem. Im afraid that because it goes unreported doesnt mean it doesnt happen. You can not base reports on reported crimes only. There are just not enough bailiffs on river banks (whether EA or bailiffing groups) to ascertain the scale of the problem. Any statistics based on the EA Hotline number should be taken with a pinch of salt, as there is evidence that they have incorrectly categorised incidents. Its all wrong, and the Campaign should have the support of anglers and clubs, it is not being done for personal glorification, nor is it for someone to gain personal credit - its being done for the benefit of all. I'm sure that Highplains could do with as much help as he can get, (perhaps CFF you could assist with this, perhaps Highplains may appreciate some advice on Case Presentation etc?) Hoppy |
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Post by highplains on Apr 9, 2008 18:59:23 GMT -1
In view of the fact that this post is repeated on Gethyns forum (nothing wrong with that) I have taken the liberty of copying the response I made there over to this forum.
cff,
Many thanks for your interest in the Campaign for the Protection of Welsh Fisheries, the aims and objectives of which were posted on this and other forums in terms of a mission statement and list of aims and objectives so that all supporters could be quite sure of exactly what they were supporting. I believe these should answer your initial enquiries, but should you require copies of any specific documentation, please let me have your email address and I will be pleased to supply it. Most however can be found on the forums as we have tried to be open and honest at all stages. The press release and all papers presented to the Minister will of course be published on the forum after the event.
With regard to the last paragraph of your post, you may be assured that the numbers of official supporters, all of whom have formally emailed their support, will come as a surprise to you and many others. For the details you will have to await the press release.
The presentations its self has been worked on for several months and will, I believe, adequately make the case for the Campaign.
I thank you for your continued interest and will be delighted to respond to any queries you may have - after the launch of the Campaign is made official.
Best wishes.
Highplains
Having just read Hoppy's post I am ashamed to say that he made my case better than I! Well that's life.
Thank you Hoppy
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Post by clwydman on Apr 9, 2008 19:38:52 GMT -1
Cff, you wrote :- 'I f you are going to meet the Minister, do it in a proper meeting with a carefully argued case and prepared agenda - not just a noisome knock on the front door and meeting on the grand Senedd steps - that's WCA's style - we're better than that. No offence was intended or should be taken.'
Knowing Alan personally and also knowing one of the AM's who Alan is working with, I have every confidence in his ability to present ' evidence for discussion'. It is vital that we as anglers, big river, small river, game sea or course anglers are united at this time.
You do not put the work in that Highplains has to throw it all away when the opportunity to take things further arise.
CFF I am delighted you clarified your first post here and no offence is intended, or should be taken by what I am about to write, the tone of your writing appears to cast scorn on anything that is not Towy based. I am certain this is not the case and probably emphasises the importance of careful consideration of any comments made or responses written down. I look forward to supporting you and welcoming your support along with all other anglers as we enter what I believe to be the most important period for the future of angling period.
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Post by Torgoch on Apr 10, 2008 23:58:08 GMT -1
Have read Cff's comments especially those of......Since you are obviously very earnest in your campaign - aren't we all - and seeking our support, perhaps you would be kind enough to tell us, in order that we may properly advise our members :-
1, who you are (by PM if you like)
2, what in summary is your complaint,
3, what alternatives you are going to give the Minister, how they might be funded and perhaps most importantly,
4, who you would claim to be representing.
All i can say is........... what arrogance!
Item 4 says it all for me and a number of guys I've conversed with.
what right has CFF to even consider challenging the integrity of Highplains and others involved with the campaign.
it would appear from previous emanations that the S Wales attitude is one of that if its not Towy and related issues and not something thats within the realms of the FERAC Cabale then its not worthy of inclusion.. well i think its about time that attitude was removed by a more democratic approach to fisheries representation in Wales where the angling community decides who's to represent it, and not a closed shop behind doors where decisions are made that reflect considerable dose's of Nepotism.
Angling Unity in Wales is still a long way off and there is great concern that it won't truly happen whilst there is this insufferable " Elitism " in existence... it has to stop and soon.
The challenges into other individuals activities and actions by Cff no matter how innocuous he thinks he may have worded it has put the backs up of very many angler in Nth Wales and created alienation and his apparent aloofness doesn't serve him well at all.
I think Highplains is owed an apology and soon!
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Post by silverinvicta on Apr 11, 2008 6:25:25 GMT -1
BRAVO.... Torgoch,
well said sir. while not being Welsh or living in Wales, a great part of my angling is and always has been in Wales.. I have many good friends in Wales North and South...I love Wales... It has always come across in all matters relating to CFF that the only interest is Towy, if i,m wrong, I do apologise, BUT...I have not seen or read anything to alter that perception....Highplains IS a man of the highest integrity.. I trust his actions before CFF...For the reason i've stated....All rivers in the UK have probs... not just one.
Silverinvicta....
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Post by cff on Apr 11, 2008 7:12:32 GMT -1
Torgoch
If anyone wants support from this direction, I have a responsibility to establish who is asking and why.
The reason the Towy is prominent is because I am one of few going to the trouble to make their rivers so.
And as for your assertions regarding 'closed shops' and nepotism, you are doing yourself and your colleagues in N Wales a great disservice for which you should be ashamed.
It is not my job to stand up for EAW and they will tell you our relationships can be 'testy' to put it mildly at times.
But. There is a fair and democratic system of representation if only you took the trouble to use it. I've stated it here before and got slated but people simply do not enough trouble to find out facts before sounding off.
I'm sorry to be critical but seeing some of the opinions expressed so far, I have every need to be cautious just for the sake of my members.
And as for Silverinvicta - so you don't trust the CFF Sec. I'll remember that. Where was it you fished on the Towy?
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Post by shocker on Apr 11, 2008 7:19:06 GMT -1
[quote author=cff board=eaw thread=3659 post=35661 time=1207901552And as for Silverinvicta - so you don't trust the CFF Sec. I'll remember that. Where was it you fished on the Towy? [/quote] You might want to make use of the smiley emoticon otherwise people might misunderstand you and think that the above could be construed as some kind of threat instead of the irony which Im sure is what you intend shocksie |
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Post by silverinvicta on Apr 11, 2008 8:05:20 GMT -1
Dont worry Shocks... I do take what our "Friend"? has written as a threat.. a personal threat.. I was writing of the Cff as a body.. but now THE SEC..has made it personal...Who the hell do you think you are mister, beside an arrogant man...I hope you DO remember me.. because i sure as hell have no intention of remembering you or your stupid threats..I dont trust any campaign that has never given me any incentive to....or person that i have never met or has also never given me any incentive to... I would hope that any one reading this and your post will now see the kind of guy fronting, as spokesman, the campaign in progress by Cff the body...it dont say much for the campaign if such a man is allowed to be spokesman, well not in my eyes...
Silverinvicta....
PS i aint fished the Towy.....yet, but I will.
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Post by cff on Apr 11, 2008 8:06:49 GMT -1
;D  |
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Post by plotter on Apr 11, 2008 8:27:16 GMT -1
sorry guys, but i feel i have to interupt at this point. cff stands for carmarthen fishermens federation. as the towy runs through carmarthen, that is why the towy is featured so often. if it was cardigan fishermans federation, then i would assume the tiefi was the main interest, and it wouldnt bother me in the slightest. we all have to work together to get the 1 goal we all want.. the only way to do this is to stop slating each other and b1tch1ing and try to work together.. all rivers are important i agree. |
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Post by shocker on Apr 11, 2008 8:31:17 GMT -1
;D there, see?Much better,now you just have to avoid the isle of man for the rest of your life and you'll be fine!!! ;D ;D ;D ever helpful,all round cheery chappy shocks |
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Post by Hoppy on Apr 11, 2008 9:06:15 GMT -1
...But. There is a fair and democratic system of representation if only you took the trouble to use it. I've stated it here before and got slated but people simply do not enough trouble to find out facts before sounding off. I'm sorry to be critical but seeing some of the opinions expressed so far, I have every need to be cautious just for the sake of my members. The last thing i want this to become is personal, and directed towards any individual - its not constructive. I am an open-minded person. I will try to get my opinon across. But more importanly i will listen to all sides of discussion, I am more than prepared to listen and be wronged. CFF - i dont know who this relates to, but seeing some of the opinions expressed so far, but if it is me, then can you advise as to where i am going wrong? Because i only give these views as i feel that people across the UK need to be made aware. I want to help. I would do anything to help protect all our fisheries, i really would and if i am armed with better information this would assist. I appreciate Plotters comments, that people have to look after their own interests - this is human nature. As i have said before due to my location it is difficult if not impossible to have an active role on a committee on a Welsh Club. Whilst i live in England, 99% of my fishing is done in Wales, and i am passionate about protecting the fish and our fishing. At some point we have to realise though, that some of the discussions with the EA/EAW have been fruitless or have fell on deaf ears. They have on occassions got it totally wrong. We are in a turbulent time, especially as some of the rivers in England & Wales are under threat of total closure. Whilst anglers may have had some effect on this, the fact that this is being considered is a result of failure within the EAW management. Why wasn't this addressed before it got to this stage? I'm afraid that if one river is closed in Wales as a result of the report on the Protection of Migratory fish post 2011 then the EA have made a huge mistake, a mistake that may cost them severley. Im afraid i dont hold the answers, and have many questions - but if im wrong, misguided, problematic to other groups, causing problems for other angling groups in the UK, by airing my views, or by running this forum then i need to be told! (preferably in pm) and would appreciate this from people who are more experienced or better educated in these matters than I. Please let me know. Hoppy |
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Post by crockski on Apr 11, 2008 11:56:29 GMT -1
CFF(the man ), i'm sure that as the Sec of CFF(the body), you have striven to improve the situation on your local rivers and served your members admirably. I'm also in no doubt that you could provide a lot of advice and guidance to some forum members to aid them in their endeavors. If only you could do so in a less arrogant and aggressive manner, you would probably receive a far more positive response. Surely there is nothing wrong in voicing an opinion, but to reply to someone elses with a comment that could be construed as a threat....... .........is overstepping the mark a little. IMHO CFF(the man), your aggressive manner will only serve to undermine your cause in the long run. Ian Still laughing my arrrse off Shocker..... ;D  ;D |
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