CAMPAIGN FOR THE PROTECTION OF WELSH FISHERIES

[highplains]

I felt obliged to copy this comment from Silver Stoat, which he made on Gethyn's forum under the thread relating to Irish Drift nets. It is a well balanced and logical explanation of the dilemma we anglers face.

If copying this comment is against the protocol of the forums will somebody please let me know. Especially Silver Stoat, if he objects. I have no wish to offend

Silver Stoat commented as follows.

Yes, it is the responsibility of the police to apprehend and prosecute those who illegally take fish with nets but there are many practical considerations, in the situations referred to by elverine1, which militate against this being the simple solution to the problem that it appears to be.

Few game anglers fish in the areas where these crimes take place so the likelihood of illegal netting being reported is low. Even if a suspected case of this type of poaching is reported, for a prosecution to take place irrefutable evidence will by needed.
In the past, bailiffs were equipped with high power telescopes plus camera attachments so could observe and collect hard evidence from a remote location. They were even issued with wet suits so the contents of ‘set’ beach nets could be checked whilst still covered by the tide at night and, most importantly, they had the power of arrest so could deal immediately with anyone seen removing or concealing illegally taken Seatrout or Salmon.
Although angler participation would be a useful adjunct to an official bailiff force, I would doubt that any club or group of anglers would be able to arrange for such a comprehensive array of equipment or be able to spend the necessary time required to carry out observations in order to do the same job by themselves.
I think it would be interesting to hear how this type of poaching crime is handled in Eire. Is there a department responsible for dealing with it and are they currently active in pursuing illegal netsmen?
Anyone from across the water have any information?



If you wish to follow up this topic and the basis upon which this post was made, please follow this link:

seatrout.proboards21.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=Game&thread=1112983694&page=11#1188688312

Whilst the above, taken in isolation, may in some respects appear out of context, the general reference to the anglers dilemma remains very much to the point.

[clwydman]

I used to fish the eastern Cleddau a great deal. I had the pleasure of meeting the best anti poaching device I have ever seen, some of you may even know him. His nickname if I recall correctly was Mogs. He was the local bailiff. If he was not to be found on the river bank, he could often be found in the local pubs whre the local poachers would drink. It was simple really, If you were caught poaching by Mogs.....well not a pleasant experience shall we say. Every land owner was visited and befriended, they were his eyes and ears. I first met Mogs at about 2 in the morning in a very wooded stretch of the river. Suddenly a torch shone straight at me, I turned to my father who was also fishing when this voice boomed " Have you catched anything?" this was repeated several times until a voice below us shouted " It's alright Mogs the've got rods. Another bailiff appeared with the meanest looking alsation I have ever seen. Mogs then broke through the under grown and apologised for disturbing our fishing but he had heard a rumour that poachers were about. They both left with the vision of the biggest forearms I have ever seen in my life fixed in my mind. My Dad then summed up the presence of the man Mogs, bearing in mind that I was 17 or 18,fit as hell 6ft and 15 stone my Dad a brick layer who was a bit handy. ' I tell you what son, If that had got nasty, I'd have jumped on the bloody dog!'

Why share this story, there are no Mog'ses around on our rivers anymore. There is no deterent to poachers anymore but sorry Rappala I do not agree that there are no poachers any more, there are and plenty of them.

I again repeat if we do not ensure the protection of our migratory fish in our waters, the Irish drift net removal will be a waste of time and our fish will continue to become a rarety in our waters. Any venture that protects returning fish has my support, I do not see the logic of others who do not support all ventures aimed at protecting our stocks .

I have been amazed at the negative attitude of some towards this campaign. Keep up the support it is needed.

[sewinbasher]

clwydman said:

Why share this story, there are no Mog'ses around on our rivers anymore. There is no deterent to poachers anymore but sorry Rappala I do not agree that there are no poachers any more, there are and plenty of them.

There used to be a bailiff on the Lower Wye, I think his name was , and he had a long haired alsatian the size of a small bear.

When he shouted across the river to anglers on the other side and asked if they had licences and got a foul mouthed response from them as they considered themselves safe, he sent the dog across the river. He then strolled leisurely back to his car and drove up to the nearest bridge to come down on their side.

If the anglers attempted to leave before he arrived the dog, who by now was sat right by them, indicated that this might not be a good idea.

[highplains]

I attended the opening of the Clwyd and Conwy Rivers Trust this afternoon. Chris Mills, Director, Wales, of the Environment Agency was present as was Andy Schofield also of the EAW together with a number of other staff members of the EAW together with many distinguished representatives of the angling community. In view of the aims of our campaign I was keen to speak directly with Chris Mills and to continue sparing with Andy Schofield.

Andy Schofield was his usual ebullient self and we spent quite some time exchanging views on the issue of enforcement or lack thereof.

Chris Mills was a surprisingly easy man to speak to, well informed and aware of this campaign and the issues raised generally on this and other sea trout forums. He has offered to meet representatives of the campaign: so that is something to look forward to. Watch this space!

What I was keen to make clear to Chris Mills was that this campaign is NOT anti environment agency. It is campaigning for more bailiffs - full stop. We want the Welsh Assembly Government to acknowledge the economic value of angling generally to the Welsh economy and to provide the funds to protect the source of that income; the fish themselves, from the ravages of poaching.

I am told that the results of the review of enforcement in Wales is due to be made public soon and that we may be surprised at the content. That was as much as I could gather from them! We shall see.

I am sure as details emerge detailing the proposed aims of the Trust we will be raising many issues!

We await details of the enforcement review and gird ourselves for the next round as necessary.

Thank you for your support so far and please continue to pass on the names of more supporters.

As the club committee season now begins again may I remind those of you who promised to raise the matter of supporting the campaign with your clubs to please remember to do so and let me know the out come.

Best regards

Highplains

[highplains]

Brynle Williams AM for North Walesd Shadow Minister for Rural affairs has sent me the following copy corespondance rergarding the review.

[rwgbridgend]

Highplains,

I have received the same letter via bethan jenkins AM.

Other local AM's have also written to the minister on our behalf. I am sure that the Minister is now fully aware of the interest and importance of the review.

[highplains]

Rwgbridgend,

Good to know.

Thank you.

[Barcud]

It would seem there is no shortage of money when it comes to funding canoeing. It would be interesting to find out exactly how much the WAG are contributing to this.

Canoe centre needs to navigate cost cuts
Sep 8 2007

by Phillip Nifield, South Wales Echo

CHANGES are being made to reduce the cost of a stunning Olympic-standard canoe slalom centre in Cardiff Bay.
Work was scheduled to start last May but it was delayed after four tenders came in above the estimate of £8.2m and none completely met all elements of the scheme.
Revised assessments put the possible bill at £11.5m with increased costs as a result of increasing steel costs, design changes, the bay edge walkway, refurbishment of a coal discharger and external landscaping.
Cardiff council corporate director Tom Morgan said only one tender was received by the revised date of August 10, with indications that the construction would still exceed estimates.
“Meetings have been held and the tenderer has identified substantial changes to the scope of the project which, if accepted, may result in cost reductions enabling the project to be delivered within the overall estimate,” he said in a report to the executive.
He said the work contract had to be in place in October so works in the River Ely could be carried out in line with requirements from the Environment Agency. The council said it hoped the Welsh Assembly Government would next month agree funding so it could go ahead, albeit delayed.
The centre is expected to attract up to 50,000 users a year once established. There are currently around 1,250,000 UK canoeists, making it the highest participation water activity in the country.
[e-mail]

[greyduster]

I've learnt today that the Editor at the SWE is prepared to accept any comments or complaints about the level of reporting by The reporter Phillip Nifield from either anglers and or governing bodies that may wish to dispute the figure of 1,250.000 canoeists as the highest water sports participation activity in the country.
Angling as we are always being told by both the English and Welsh Sports bodies that the figure close on some 3 million people which combines game, Sea and Coarse fishing take part during some part of every year therefore where did the reporter get his ill founded facts from? the canoeist Lobby I would presume!!
I'm sure any responses that are made that include reference to the hostilities so far experienced by anglers from canoeists and the fact that WAG is trying to ram enforced canoe access down the throats of riparian owners and angling associations throughout wales may make for a more balanced Journal.
My comments as an individual has gone in....I hope theres more support to follow

[Teifi Terrorist]

This link may be of interest, and is a fairly recent publication:

www.environment-agency.gov.uk/commondata/acrobat/geho0805bjpree_1153660.pdf

I believe that the bottom of page 6, and page 7 would be of interest with the above matter. Whereas the article as a whole makes for interesting generic reading.

TT.

[highplains]

Following that link provided by Teifi Terrorist, the following is copied from the document that is titled "Public Attitudes to Angling" it is worth a read for those that are interested in statistics.

Overall participation in angling
• 13% of the population over 12 said they had been fishing (freshwater and/or sea) in the last 2 years
(5.8 million people).
• 9% of the population over 12 (4.2 million people) had been fishing (freshwater and/or sea) in the last
year.

Environment Agency
Public Attitudes to Angling 2005

I must say that I have a problem as far as canoing goes in that I get so much pleasure from the time I spend on the river that I find it difficult denying others the same. That said I think there should be proper arrangements made. Licences, fees and agreements with clubs and riparian owners. That said there are insufficient EAW staff to monitor compliance by canoeists, so the levels of abuse would make the whole thing a farce.

Our problem is that the nature of our sport, and for the most part those that participate, is that we are generally happy with our own company and content with life. Yes I know its a broad generalisation.

I am however amazed at just how complacent anglers are. The "paddlers" seem to fight their corner, make a lot of noise and on occasions break the law. As a consequence they seem to "get noticed". many of us on the other hand seem to be content and laid back to the point of being almost horizontal. Whilst the numbers signing up has been OK, the number sending names of other supporters has been a trickle. It is no good thinking things will come right, or indeed that we are unable to influence "big brother". We can make a difference, we are making a difference and we will succeed in having the numbers of bailiffs increased. Why --- because we have to.


Come on support the campaign.

Details of supporters by email of PM

Thanks to all of you that have.

Regards.

Highplains.

p.s. Please do not let my comments on canoing take over this thread.

[highplains]

It is that time of year again. The club committee cycle is upon us once more. This is a great chance to ask fellow angles to pledge support for the campaign. Just take a paper headed :

Name Signature Location Post Code

and get a few signatures and let me have the details.

We need real numbers for the campaign to have weight. Please do your best. If you can get your committee approval to support the campaign, then please let me have the club name and approximate membership numbers.

Many thanks

Highplains

[davibubb]

Done

[highplains]

Thank you David.

Any other members not yet signed up please PM or email me your support.

A reminder that you can also email the names of family and friends that support the campaign and I will add them to the list. If you all get 10 that would be great. You know you want to!!

All the best

Highplains

[greyduster]

This Link which I found today from another well known national angling website will no doubt give everyone food for thought

see :- www.fishingmagic.com/news/article/mps/UAN/5019/v/1/?source=weeklyemail&attr=highlights1

why don't the Guys at the Bangor office operate as proactively as other parts of the EA's domain.
I wonder why not....... maybe the real reason is poor motivation caused by a lack of knowledgable working stock managers ! is this the real cause?
Anglers in the Bethesda and Caernarfon areas certainly have good reason to be seriously sceptical as they have no faith in the local officers I'm told

[highplains]

This is the article to which the link will take you.

Well spotted Greyduster and well said

The article starts here

Environment Agency help close net on fish thefts
By FishingMagic


The Environment Agency is working hard to reduce fish thefts, illegal stocking and disease transfer in Hampshire. The latest initiative was to tag carp in a lake near Denmead which have been the target of thieves.
There have been a number of incidents of fish theft at the fishery in the last 12 months. Hampshire Fisheries officers pitt (passive integrated transponding tag) tagged the fish yesterday in a bid to deter thieves from stealing the fish and stocking them in other waters. The tags will enable fisheries officers to accurately identify fish which originated from the water concerned.

Carp are very popular with anglers all over the country and attain large sizes when kept under the right conditions in the wild. They can attract great financial rewards and cases of carp theft and illegal stocking have risen in recent years. Paul Newman, Fisheries Officer for the Environment Agency said: “One of our major concerns is the removal of fish from one water and stocking them in another. This is illegal and can spread diseases, putting not only the carp but also the other fish species and their habitat at risk.”

Under the Salmon and Freshwater Fisheries Act, Environment Agency fisheries officers have the power to arrest and prosecute any one who is caught stealing or restocking fish. Paul warns: “Our officers are patrolling hotspots on a regular basis, and anyone found fishing stealing and restocking can face arrest, seizure of equipment, prosecution and fines of up to £2,500 pounds.”

The Environment Agency is able to do work to protect and enhance fisheries through the funding received each year from rod licence sales.

If you see anything suspicious, please report it to the Environment Agency on our 24 hour incident hotline freephone

[highplains]

This is an extract from a FERAC paper that relates to the infamous 0800 80 70 60 reporting line.

I know from the forums that anglers are still not using this number to report incidents and by so doing reinforce the EAW argument that there is no poaching. Please use this number and report all incidents and get an incident number. I find it hard to believe that only a little over 30 fishing related incidents have been reported. Most of that number must have been made in connection with the Ogmore debacle.

Please fellow anglers use the 0800 80 70 60 free phone line. Being a bit of a cynic I really wonder how true this is, after all the Trusts are being given their own "private" numbers to report incidents. Perhaps somebody from the EAW would be kind enough to inform us if these are included. If they are one is bound to ask what use the Trusts are?

I will post this on the other forum and ask Gethyn if he can have the matter clarified.

The report item is as follows:

3.4 Reported Incidents

A total of 66 incident reports have been received this year with approximately 50% being confirmed as relating to fisheries offences. This compares with 59 reported during the same period in 2006 and 49 in 2005.

[highplains]

It would seem it’s not only enforcement the EA are attempting to avoid taking responsibility for.
Here's a recent article from The Angling Times.



Quote:Britains rivers are facing greater risk of serious pollution than ever before Angling conservationists are warning this week. The threat comes following an Environment Agency announcement that it will soon cease to take responsibility for what is pumped into our waterways. Instead businesses-like major water companies-are to be allowed to police themselves-and that could spell disaster for the UKs rivers.
Grave concerns over the plans have been raised by numerous angling organisations, led by the ACA which is claiming the sport was never consulted over the proposed changes. The development means that decades of positive changes, which have left our rivers and fish stocks in their best state for generations, could now be undone in one Government cost cutting exercise. And it seems certain that pollution incidents like the one that hit the river Wandle last month -will once again become the norm.
Under these plans, the water plcs-already topping the the Environment Agency league of water polluters-will be asked to monitor their own polluting discharges and presumably report themselves for prosecution if they slip up, explained outraged ACA chairman Dr Stephen Marsh Smith.
Rather than looking for ways to cut the costs of regulation, the EA should be funded properly so that it can monitor what goes into our watercorses. We want to see more policing of polluters and tougher fines, rather than allowing the polluters to monitor themslves, added ACA director Mark Lloyd.

The association is argueing that all the evidence points towards a continued need for tight regulation of what industries,farmers and businesses flush into rivers. It warns that health of fish, invertebrates and biodiversity is dependent on water quality.
And it is asking the question of whether businesses are capable of monitoring water quality effeciently and effectively and also whether they can be trusted to report themselves if they do cause a pollution incident.Others have been equally d**ning of the proposals.
The proposal for the controllers of licenced discharges to monitor their own output beggars belief, claimed Specialist Anglers Alliance sec. Mike Heylin. Anglers an clubs have roundly attacked these plans plans, yet the Agency insists on pursueing the proposal, apparently to save costs and meet Government targets for lighter regulation, he added.
The E.A claims there has been overwhelming support for the application of a modern regulation approach to manageing discharges to water.
However when asked by AT to explain how water companies continue to go unpunished for storm sewage overflow pollution incidents- the cause of the major fish kills on the Thames in 2004 and the Don last year-the Agency claimed that it is not practicable or justifiable to eliminate storm overflows.
Conservationists are left asking just how many dead fish it will take to justify the investment needed to modernise our ageing sewage system.


Copied from the Ogmore forum

The price we all pay for the worship of performance indicators

[DAZ]

For once....I really am lost for words!.

I CAN'T BELIEVE WHAT I JUST READ.

Please tell me that's a wind up!.

DAZ.

[clwydman]

Just watch that happen on teh River Clwyd once the new housing estate is completed on the flood plain below Ruthin. Storm drains always discharging into the river. No wind up Daz, it is a fact, if I knew how to put pictures onto the forum I would show you the pictures I took and sent to the EA last summer which resulted in.........................yes you guessed it, sod all