braided leaders

[buzzerman]

hi guys a wonder if you could help as i have never fished for grayling with a braided leader , the pro,s and con,s methods and bug please thanks boys billy p

[flashyal]

Hi Buzzerman,

I actually fish with nothing other than Furled Tapered Leaders which I find are superior to braided leaders and far superior to mono leaders ;D. Braided leaders are known to be too limp to effectively turn over the tippet and fly and deliver it to the target.

I have a loop on the end of my flyline which is made from the interior of the flyline itself. I strip off a few inches of coating of the flyfline, double it over making a loop, and then put on a couple of whip finishes finally applying a couple of coats of varnish. To this loop I attach a furled leader of about 6 foot in length via a loop to loop connection. I then connect a high viz braided leader of about 6 inches at the end of this again loop to loop . A mini ring can be attached to the end of the braided leader and your fluorcarbon leader attached to this. I normally don't bother with the mini ring as I feel that it it pulls the high viz braided leader slightly below the surface especially if fishing with heavy nymphs . The fluorcarbon I use is Stroft which is available in very low diameters.

The useful thing with this set up is that you can fish with both dry fly and nymph depending on conditions without having to change your leader set up ;D ;D ;D. You can be nymphing one second with fish rising all around you and change straight away to a dry fly in the matter of seconds. When casting into a head wind or side wind, the furled leader will drive the tippet and fly to the target with authority, providing far better presentation and turnover. You will notice improved casting immediately.

For top-water dry fly fishing, furled leaders will cast amazingly long tippets and delicately settle on the water's surface. Even "non-expert" fly casters will greatly improve presentation of their fly. The set up can also be used effectively for both czech nymphing and long upstream nymphing.

Another major advantage is the usable life of a furled leader is measured in months or seasons while mono leaders is measured in hours. Furled leaders are not "throw-away" leaders. At the end of a day's fishing, simply snip off the tippet.

Info on how to make a furled leader can be got from the following site.
www.globalflyfisher.com/fishbetter/henk/henk1.html

Enjoy
flashyal

[flashyal]

Hi Buzzerman,

Other useful links on furled leaders.

How to attach a Furled Leader permanently to the flyline:
www.furledleaders.co.uk/furled_leader_knot.html

Nymphing Furled Leaders
www.furledleaders.co.uk/nymphing.html

There are also some wetfly & dryfly furled leaders on the site, but I'd say they're pretty much the same. A nymphing furled leader would be a good choice.

Also has Stroft for sale on the same site. Much cheaper than other fluorocarbons, and in extremely low diameters. I swear by Stroft.
www.furledleaders.co.uk/accessories.html

[Hoppy]

Buzz,

I'm not the best person to answer your question, however i will try to explain one of my rigs - which is the all-through braid leader.

Steff uses something different, which is in essence a modern czezch nymph short line set up.

I do use Steff's set up now, however i found i did need to practice a lot with it, as I found bite indication difficult. In fact there is definately a great deal of skill to this method, and watching Steff and Daz fish with it - i'm sure they have a sixth sense. To be fair i'm getting better with this method which is a visual means of bite detection. However it is very very effective. I have to thank TT for the rig, and showing me how to fish it. I think it will take me some time to master - bit i have confidence in it.

The all-through braid leader is more feel than sight, however i do tend to watch the tip as well as feel the bite.

The rig is very easy to make, and to be fair it isn't designed for casting at all, its designed for 'bugging' or 'czech nymphing' and the short upstream flick that is required forthis method.

I make the leader with braided backing, at the moment i'm using Shakespeare Worcestershire Fly Line Backing - i find it very supple and easy to work with to make the loops. Im sure that other makes would be just as good, but not the mono backing.

The rig is simple to make. Take a length of braid that is 4ft longer than the rod you intend to fish with. So for a 10ft rod, try around 14ft of backing.

At either end of the braid make a loop, in the same manner in which you would make a loop in a snake fly.

This is done by threading the end of the braid inside of itself with a needle. Take the braid inside itself for about 5cms. I then dab a little superglue on the braid for added strength.

After doing this you should have two loops in the leader, one at each end. You can put a ring into one end of the braid if you wish.

I then mark one end of the leader with permanent black marker. Segmenting the leader at regular intervals. This will give a zebra crossing type effect. My marks are about 7.5cms (3 inches) long.

So you will have black, yellow, black, yellow, black yellow etc. (or other colour depending on the type of braid you use). I mark the end for about 3ft.

Thats it, thats the rig.

I then attach this to my fly line, loop through loop, making sure the segmented end is outside your rod.

Then simply attach a leader to the segmented end. between 8 and 10ft is about average.

I then use a very heavy point fly, and two droppers.

When fishing i want the point fly to bump the bottom.

When fishing you should be holding the braid with your fingers, just off the reel. (There should be some braid remaining on the reel.) This will allow you to feel bites through the braid which is very sensitive due to there being no stretch. You can vaary the length of braid out of your tip ring - between 1ft and 3ft.

Thats how i do it, i find it a very sensitive way of feeling the bites. I still look at the segmented braid at the top of your mono leader. I have the tip of the braid just touching the water.

Then the method is as czech nymphing, flicking the flies upstream and leading them through, in front of you. You should feel the bites through the braid, but at the same time watching the segments, striking at any movement in the braid, or at any touch on the braid.

After a while i found i could differentiate between the bug, bumping the riverbed, and bites.

I will say that if there is any wind this effects the braid and blows it easy.

Also set your clutch loose on the reel, as i found i lost a few fish at the start of using this method because i didn't compensate for the 'no stretch.'

Steff and Daz fish a far more visual method, and i hope they will explain.

Hoppy

[buzzerman]

thats great info lads thsnk you very mutch im going to make some up i will let you know how i get on billy p
ps flashy al i cant acess the sites you have given me

[buzzerman]

well steff and daz could you be so kind as to let me know how you go about it p.s some pics would be nice

[buzzerman]

hop what breaking strain floro would you use and how long , ,my rod is 9ft so i would need 13ft of braid right just need to know how long for the floo please thanks , billy

[Hoppy]

Bill

Between 7 and 10ft, with a point fly and two droppers about 18' apart should do the trick.

Hoppy

[buzzerman]

thanks mate ,have you trie the furled leaders at all

[flashyal]

Sorry Buzz,

Link to how to make furled leaders
www.globalflyfisher.com/fishbetter/henk/henk1.htm

Try the following links again for the nymphing furled leaders and Stroft material.
www.furledleaders.co.uk/nymphing.htm

www.furledleaders.co.uk/accessories.htm

or just go the home page
www.furledleaders.co.uk/home.htm

The heaviest nymph can also be placed on the middle dropper which will bring all 3 nymphs in to the taking zone particularly if the grayling are feeding hard on the bottom. On the breaking strain I normally go by the diameter of the fluorocarbon and so use 0.12mm Stroft which is 4lb breaking strain, if the water is clearer I may even go down to .10mm (3.19lb) or .08mm (2.2lb). If the water is coloured you can get away with heavier 0.15mm (5.28lb), 0.16mm (6.6lb) Stroft. If the fishing is tough or there is great angling pressure lighter diameters can prove beneficial.

A leader of about the length of the rod is right. If the water is shallower you should shorten the length of the leader.

I reason I use Stroft is because of the narrow diameter to good breaking strain ratio, and the price too of course.

flashyal

[buzzerman]

cheers al

[Diawlbach]

Fishing the braid set up feels so far away from everything that I enjoy in fly fishing that I gave it one go and never intend to return to it!( Enter obligatory each to their own caveat here)

[buzzerman]

point taken db ihave never tried it .but i think i should , then we will see if its for me tight lines ,bily p

[DAZ]

buzzerman said:

well steff and daz could you be so kind as to let me know how you go about it p.s some pics would be nice

Steff is the man to reply to this Bill.

[buzzerman]

OK mate i await the fish god [ I'm such a creep aren't i he he ] when ever your ready to explain oh mighty one ;D

[Hoppy]

Diawlbach, i think you are right that this method doesn't suit everyone, and it has its knockers.

However im sure it far outfishes the across and down method employed by many.

In fact when i watched the Welsh trials the people who finished best had bugged the water, or fished with a Stimulator nymph.

I still use the dry fly and intend to master the upstream spider.

To be fair i enjoy this way of fishing, its a great way of searching the water, and by employing it i have caught more fish.

The bugging method saves fishing trips when the river is high!

Bill, Never tried the furled leaders, but i believe they are brilliant for fishing the dry.

Hoppy

[Teifi Terrorist]

buzzerman said:

hi guys a wonder if you could help as i have never fished for grayling with a braided leader , the pro,s and con,s methods and bug please thanks boys billy p

Hi Bill,

I will split the answer into two sections, dries and nymphs;

Dries; for dries I use the roman moser tapered leaders:

www.lakelandflytying.com/275/Braided_Leaders.aspx

Scroll down to the 'high'n'dry' series. They are great, and really aid turn-over and presentation, also being a much neater system than 'stepping down'. They also take floatant quite well, which is a bonus.

To be fair the links flashyal put up would do exactly the same job, and may offer more flexibility and variation.

Nymphs; at one time I did fish fluoro' braid straight through to my reel. However, this, in my opinion, has become an inferior method. People advocated this method because you, supposedly, could feel the river-bed as the nymphs fished, and that you had more sensitivity. I found for any of this to be true you needed to put a really heavy bug on the point (sacrificial), which then equated to the nymphs fishing artificially - i.e. you had to more or less work or jig the nymphs through the runs and pools, rather than fish them naturally at the speed of the current, or slight slower. In addition, if you were only carrying one rod it's a right pain in the ... to change techniques, as you have to strip the full length of braid off, and find appropriate storage.

I do still use braid, but this is as a visual aid rather than a feel concern; indeed, fluoro mono does the same thing, however, it can't be marked with pens. This section of braid is rarely over 30cm long.

Chuck some more questions into the pot if this doesn't clarify things Bill.

TT.

[buzzerman]

hi steff i fully understand about the dry fly and i think the high and dry leaders look the business , would you go for the invisible leader or the other . i have all ways used floro on my gray ling rigs ,i am willing to try braided leaders ,but i am always prepared to listen` to the ins and outs , i think your method of short braid and floro would suit me better as its more a kin to how i fish at the moment . i know this next question is not about grayling but here goes ,would you use braided leaders/sink tips or poly tips and why please , and could you tell me the difference between braided leaders and furled leaders please , thanks once again , billy p

[flashyal]

Bill,

The links that Steff gave you on the High & Dry series is excellent. These are furled leaders and if you attach a piece of braid (15 to 30cm long) on to the end of that you have an excellent system which you can use for both dryfly & nymphs.

You can again (as Hoppy said) make your own braided leaders (15 to 30cm) out of the Shakespeare Worcestershire Fly Line Backing in yellow, orange or green colour as a visual aid to help you in detecting takes.

This is the system I use as I can fish both nymph and dryfly and interchange easily whenever needed.

[buzzerman]

thanks al great help as usual , i have ordered a couple of the high and dry leaders and have allready made a couple of braids up one 25 cm and the other at 30cms i will try hoppys way as well but the furled leader,s look brilliant , thanks to all billy p , ps just got to wait for the rivers to drop now