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Post by Hoppy on Mar 29, 2007 20:38:09 GMT -1
I have Just seen this from someone who is in the know, who has posted this on this forum tonight - READ THIS then consider the future of our fishing.
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Post by Diawlbach on Mar 29, 2007 21:15:45 GMT -1
Re “the Teifi Rivers Trust aren't going to be concerned about the Dwyfor in North Wales, nor about the exploitation of Sandeels and Salmon at sea?”
Just a minor correction there Hoppy, the river trust movement is all about partnerships and joint bids for funding for shared issues, that's one of its strong points.
Consequently shared concerns between regions - possibly hundreds of miles apart from each other - can be addressed by joint funding applications which will be of benefit to various river trusts.
The Teifi Rivers Trust has successfully teamed up with the Suir and Nore Trust in Eire for start up funding for example and we intend to maintain close links with them.
Trusts also promote voluntary catch and release which I fully support. Apart from the odd otter and weir we anglers - and poachers of course - are the some of the last obstacles in the way of the fish. I also approve of stocking but not the hit and miss approach which is so prevalent with the commercial outfits but a targeted reintroduction of fry into their correct tributary following in stream work to maximise survival rates.
It will be interesting to see what comes from the recent review on bailiffing. I was able to ask Daffyd Evans what he intended to do about the problem at the TRT launch last weekend but was basically told to wait and see.
The points the EA award to prioritising the challenges facing rivers were shown in a presentation by Daffyd Evans and they came out as something like
Channel structure and siltation - 35 Water quality - 22 Obstructions - 15 Exploitation - 12 Water quantity - 9
“Exploitation” covers poaching and legitimate fishing.
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Post by highplains on Mar 30, 2007 18:50:02 GMT -1
Rivers Trusts!
Remember Troy and its famous wooden horse?
Time will tell.
Highplains
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Post by Paul Dunstan on Mar 30, 2007 19:47:33 GMT -1
Rivers Trusts! Remember Troy and its famous wooden horse? Time will tell. Highplains Personally, I don't see Rivers Trusts as a subversive group or one that supports an enemy, real or imagined. Neither do they engage in espionage or sabotage. I'd be interested in your explanation of why you see them as an enemy in our midst because that's what a Trojan Horse is. Somewhat confused.
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Post by darkwader on Mar 30, 2007 19:50:34 GMT -1
Evening guys, A very interesting debate, so I will put in my two penneth worth. Firstly the EA is accountable but not answerable. why? Because we have too many small organisations and not one big enough and professional enough to delve and question the agency. We need a body to represent all disiplines with experts to argue our cause and steer their work as needed for our fisheries and not political gain. Question where licence money is spent and whether all of it(as it is supposed to be) is spent on fisheries, or does some get hived off to help with goverment shortfalls. 50k to fund a bailliff is good value if used for general work as well as enforcement, but old skills are being lost as they are used soley to meet targets. As in all things EA, decisions are made at a level that have little or no practical knowledge of fisheries problems, and the people that have the knowledge are not consulted. We have to keep pressure on, and the best way is to form a single organisation with the affiliation of all discilplines clubs and societies. And yes I am available to help!
Highplains - under consideration.
regards Darkwader.
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Post by clwydman on Mar 31, 2007 19:30:08 GMT -1
Could not agree more darkwader. The biggest job for any organisation would be providing statistics to prove that poaching, habitat degredation, high seas netting etc are having a detrimental effect. The EA as with any other public service sector will only react to statistics. So every angling club every angler is encouraged to report every suspicious behaviour on the river bank (including the two kids who sneak down for a quick fish without a licience) stats then show an increase in poaching activity, EA have to react to that stat. Would a post on these such forums dedicated solely to suspicious activity seen wherever you are be worth a go?
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Post by highplains on Mar 31, 2007 20:32:47 GMT -1
Clwydman,
I really am reluctant to disagree with you. The process you suggest is simple, honest and basic and in a reasonable society would work. The issue is we have a public body, the Environment Agency, failing in its most basic duty. We have recorded and proven incidents of calls to the EAW about poachers being recorded as "non agency business". We have Darkwader telling us that there are three bailiffs on the whole of the river Severn system, the longest in England and as they have to work in pairs that means one team to work the whole system. The EAW say there is no poaching problem because they have no record to show it and now record means it does not happen. They have no records because their trained staff were not trained to put poaching in the correct box!
The season has just started and there are poachers being caught on the Ogmore by RWBridgend! He is catching them, several at a time, but the EAW say they will not respond (If they did they would have to acknowledge there are poachers). There are poachers on the Dee already. The other thread that is getting so much attention "Nets found in my favorite river again" was started by a member frustrated at finding a thirty metre net on his favourite sea trout river.
"The season has hardly started, there are no poachers and all is well with the world" - EAW propaganda.
The EAW must be brought to account and the Welsh Assembly Government must direct them to protect our water.
This is not a Wales only issue this is also an English issue. We have to start somewhere.
Sorry if that seems a bit of a rant.
On a more positive note all calls to the EAW hotline that relate to poaching are now supposed to be directed to a water bailiff. The number is 0800 80 70 60. Please add this to your mobile phone and use it.
God only knows how the hard worked bailiff staff are going to cope with this extra duty, perhaps the 'North Wales Seven' are to be provided with copious quantities of caffeine to keep them awake twenty four seven!
Keep reporting, keep letting the forum know and keep applying the pressure.
No poaching my *.*!!!!!
All the best
Highplains
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Post by Hoppy on Mar 31, 2007 21:30:44 GMT -1
If i were to consider the issues affecting the Game Disclipine angle for an overarching group these would be my main points.
Avian Predation - Cormorrants, Goosanders, Mergansers - licences to be issued for the culling of these birds from key areas. The licences would need tobe measured in order that the RSPB wouldn't kick up too much a fuss. However on some stretches these birds are devating fish stocks and need controlling. On a National Level this would benefit all areas, but consider Loch Leven, South West Wales and Rutland - all with large populations of this type of bird.
Fish Farming For the work of Bruce Sandison of the Salmon Farm Group to be continued. Better public awareness of Salmon Farming, Independant review of the affect farming has on Wild fish, and the escalation of sea lice. This would also need to consider viable options for economies reliant upon Fish Farms - Consideration to inland farms.
Canoes Argreements to be sought with canoeists in the UK. Canoeists to be licenced, boats to be identifiable by number, EA licence fee to be paid for those using ourwaterways.
Enforcement and bailiffing An independant review of the reduction in EA Bailiffs. Pressure to be placed to fund more posts. Further consideration to be given to the Part Time Warranted volunteers and other options.
For a transparent system of recording of offences, and resulting of incidents - therefore Not EA business would not be a valid reason without some supporting evidence.
Habitat restoration Habitat Restoration to be conducted nationwide, this could even include community based punishements issued by courts. Restoration to be reviewed on all rivers, and prioritised to those rivers in greatest need. I.e to be balanced between Income from Angling, Water Quality and necessity - i.e if a river has been polluted or subject of excessive abstraction etc - it would be a priority case. As would a river that has potential of producing sustainable fish stocks.
River stocking Targetted stocking on rivers that are not reaching sustainable numbers, or egg deposition levels.
Water quality Pollution is a key area - Pressure on continual offenders ie Dwr Cymru and the like. Also continued pressure on the Government, to keep harmful pesticides and chemicals away from watercourses. i.e Cypermethrin etc
Illegal netting at sea and in estuaries Estuaries to be regularly patrolled, or consideration to be given that these areas are designated as non fishing spots, as on the continent?
Disease in fish Continual assessment on the threat of disease to Fish - UDN and GS.
Decline in fish Research into the decline in fish and its causes. This could consider exploitation of the seas, in particular drift nets and sandeel fisheries.
They would be my areas any other thoughts?
Hoppy
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Post by DAZ on Mar 31, 2007 21:39:02 GMT -1
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Post by Hoppy on Mar 31, 2007 21:44:05 GMT -1
Daz, You are dead right, whose problem is it? If its not EA Business whose problem is it? If clubs catch someone fishing without a licence - then who prosecutes them? I know that if you produce your licence, it entitles you to see another anglers - but if you wanted to prosecute them it would be difficult! Hoppy
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Post by wnion on Apr 1, 2007 12:27:19 GMT -1
Some of you might not know that FACT has united The Specialist Anglers Alliance, ACA, The National Federation of Anglers, The Salmon and Trout Association , The National Federation of Sea Anglers, The Angling Trade Association,The National Association of Fisheries and Angling Consultatives, The Professional Coarse Fishery Association, The Atlantic Salmon Trust and The Association of Stillwater Game Fisheries Managers together as one unified voice. The Fisheries and Angling Conservation Trust www.factuk.co.uk/NUBA has also recently been formed to give individual anglers a stronger voice. NATIONAL UNION OF BRITISH ANGLERS www.nuba.org.uk/
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Post by clwydman on Apr 1, 2007 12:45:44 GMT -1
I take your point highplains but you know as well as I do that if we just talk about an angling club you and I know well and think of AGM's where the same anglers who have moaned and groaned about lack of fish etc sit in an AGM and say bugger all. What I am saying is if every angler took a far more active role in the monitoring (NOT POLICING) of the waters, evidence of poaching occuring would increase. This is the only way you will get a change of direction from the EA or WAG or anyone else. There are not enough Bailiffs to provide the evidence, we anglers need to do something for ourselves as a group not just rely on individuals to fight the cause!
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Post by highplains on Apr 1, 2007 14:29:52 GMT -1
Clwydman,
Spot on! I agree whole heartedly.
We need as many people as possible to let us know, as well as the EAW about poaching.
I would add that the chap who started the thread about finding nets in his favourite river, when asked said he had not reported the matter to the EAW but to the chairman of his club. This is indicative of how the most basic reporting is failing. The chap clearly had no idea to whom he should report such matters. Not his fault but the EAW's who should be advertising the detrimental effect of poaching, what constitutes poaching and how to report it.
Please remember 0800 80 70 60 to contact the EAW as soon as you hear of or witness any poaching incident. Then let the forum members know.
All the best
Highplains
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Post by Gwyniadun on Apr 1, 2007 15:10:44 GMT -1
Suddenly the 'Campaign' has sparked again. I am not totally despaired Highplains, but the roundabout we are on does tend to make us dizzy.
Q: Who is the Game Angling Governing Body in Wales?
A:The Welsh Salmon and Trout Association
Q: I believe that they did have about a hundred Clubs in membership, which is representative of most of the Clubs in Wales. What are they doing about the problem?
A: ?
Q: Seems like a few of us have grasped the nettle and lobbied WAG as individuals, ofcourse, the numbers involved in political terms do not warrant action, just lip service, so the merry go round will continue, what are we going to do?
A: ?
Gwyniadun
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Post by highplains on Apr 1, 2007 16:18:24 GMT -1
Gwyniadun
I suppose the answer to your question is just keep on plugging away. The EAW representatives have made it quite clear, privately, that they have steered the Agency through the past reviews with ease and aim to do the same with this one.
Well I sincerely hope the task will be a little more difficult this time and that as a consequence some of those blasé officers will be made to think. If nothing else we are reminding them that they presided over the journey to the current mess! It is they that must carry the responsibility for much of the current situation.
As public servant they should be making the Assembly and the Westminster parliament aware of the situation. They should be sharing our concerns and representing us. There should be no need for a society, club or organisation to look after the fish in our waters - the E.A. should be doing it!!
Let us at least try to bring them to account.
Please keep putting on the pressure and write to the politicians asking them to instruct the EA to protect our fish stocks!
All the best
Highplains
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Post by Gwyniadun on Apr 2, 2007 18:05:57 GMT -1
I agree Highplains we must not let this slip away.
Gwyniadun
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Post by Hoppy on Apr 2, 2007 21:01:42 GMT -1
Some of you might not know that FACT has united The Specialist Anglers Alliance, ACA, The National Federation of Anglers, The Salmon and Trout Association , The National Federation of Sea Anglers, The Angling Trade Association,The National Association of Fisheries and Angling Consultatives, The Professional Coarse Fishery Association, The Atlantic Salmon Trust and The Association of Stillwater Game Fisheries Managers together as one unified voice. The Fisheries and Angling Conservation Trust www.factuk.co.uk/NUBA has also recently been formed to give individual anglers a stronger voice. NATIONAL UNION OF BRITISH ANGLERS www.nuba.org.uk/Wnion, Thanks for this - this is what is needed, i will be drafting something to put forward to FACT in the next few days. Hoppy
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Post by Diawlbach on Apr 3, 2007 6:33:34 GMT -1
Rivers Trusts! Remember Troy and its famous wooden horse? Time will tell. Highplains Personally, I don't see Rivers Trusts as a subversive group or one that supports an enemy, real or imagined. Neither do they engage in espionage or sabotage. I'd be interested in your explanation of why you see them as an enemy in our midst because that's what a Trojan Horse is. Somewhat confused. Come on then Highplains, what exactly did you mean when you wrote that?
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Post by wnion on Apr 3, 2007 10:40:14 GMT -1
I don't know anything about river trusts yet, and did not see the item on S4C about the Teifi trust . I was told though by a friend(apologies if incorrect) that the trust includes all river users including canoests ! Could this be Highplains point of a Trojan horse.
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Post by wnion on Apr 3, 2007 11:55:37 GMT -1
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