Views sought on Environment Agency performance

[wnion]

Views sought on Environment Agency performance

Written By: Steve Griffiths
On Date: 19/12/2007

The National Association of Fisheries and Angling Consultatives (NAFAC) is seeking the views of anglers, clubs, and fishery owners with regard to how effective they believe the Environment Agency carries out it’s fisheries responsibilities.

A questionnaire, which was recently circulated to all NAFAC members has now been included in the NAFAC website, www.nafac.co.uk, and can be downloaded by anyone. Everyone with an interest in angling or fishery management is invited to complete the form and return it to NAFAC.

NAFAC Executive Chairman, Martin Read, commented, ‘The Environment Agency is often criticised for it’s actions, or the lack of them, over the range of it’s responsibilities, yet they claim that their own surveys show that 80% of anglers are satisfied with their performance. Our survey asks some detailed questions and we are asking those with an interest in fisheries to answer them accurately and candidly in order to provide a wide ranging overall view. We will be discussing our finding with the Agency, good or bad, when the results have been correlated.’
The National Association of Fisheries and Angling Consultatives (NAFAC) is the national body of local and regional fisheries and angling consultatives (stakeholder groups) that together represent the views of over 400,000 anglers and others with an interest in our fisheries.
Visit www.nafac.co.uk for more information about NAFAC.

[highplains]

I do not believe it!

I have just visited the web site and downloaded the form, which I have to say, at first glance looks comprehensive. However I smell foul play. The form has to be downloaded, completed by hand and posted back to NAFAC. AND IT IS PUBLISHED ON THE NAFAC WEBSITE. This is beyond a joke. The web site looks fine it is well presented yet there is NO FACILITY TO EMAIL THE FORM BACK TO THEM? Just what is going on.

There is however posted under links the email address of John Williams the secretary.

I will post a copy as requested, I will also copy this post and a completed form to the email address given.

You may wish to do the same.

It seems to me that if you wanted to look as though you are seeking opinions but wanted to limit the response this would be a good way to do it. Then maybe I am very very cynical.

Regards.

Highplains

[highplains]

I have just tried to do as I said however, the form is locked so you can not complete it even if you save the document and try to edit it on your computer.

What a surprise!!!!

[DAZ]

I don't understand why something like that can't be done on line.

DAZ.

P.S...I don't think your that cynical Allan.

[Hoppy]

I will try to do this today!

Some very interesting reading re stocking in FF&FT this month - some interesting views on the Trout & Grayling Strategy!

Hoppy

[tigermoth]

I think Peter Lapsley is trying to stir the pot in FF&FT, and that's it. In the article itself comes down neither one way or t'other - which suits PL's position just fine.

Part of the problem is the wider perception of the GCT's research project. My feeling would be that their findings are not based on anywhere near a broad enough spectrum of rivers in terms of catchment and character.

[highplains]

Well, it seems I have done it again. I can only plead old age, poverty and rank stupidity plus a lot of cynicism.

I have received the following email from the NAFAC, which I have to say I am delighted to be able to post.

They are not funded by the EA and are genuinely trying to gather some meaningful details. I urge you to please download the form, fill it in and post it to the address given. It may help to make a difference.

Please don't let this opportunity pass.

Regards

Highplains


Message starts


Good morning Allan

Your email (below) has been forwarded to me as webmaster for the NAFAC website and person responsible for getting such material posted on our websites. I will try and address your questions and scepticism if I may.

Let me start by outlining who NAFAC are:

“NAFAC is the national representative body for Local and Regional Fisheries and Angling Consultatives. Its task is to represent the interests of consultatives and their members to Government and higher levels of the Environment Agency, and to liaise with other bodies such as English Nature and the RSPB to ensure that all policies affecting the fresh water environment take proper account of fisheries and angling.”

A full background on how we do that can be found by taking a look at the website.

Now if I can I will address the issue of the ‘Views sought on Environment Agency performance’ you raise in the forum posting.

Firstly the document has only this week been delivered to our members with their winter newsletter in a printed form, exactly as we have posted onto the NAFAC website. It was intended to carry out that survey internally first to get a picture of their opinions. In normal circumstances we would analyse the feedback from that circulation and consider what it tells us and take any subsequent actions, typically as we have with our Fish Theft survey. However in this case we decided to open up the survey to the widest audience and provide access to the same document simultaneously.

The quickest vehicle to provide that was to turn the original document in to an electronic version that could be made available to anyone who might like to take part. The PDF option was chosen as it is something everyone can access and print using a free Acrobat reader. Likewise the the format and questions could be presented exactly as they were being delivered to our members, thereby ensuring a like for like result for those who made the effort to complete the survey.

On the fact that the document was ‘locked’, that is to ensure that the questionnaire cannot be altered or tampered with and I am sure that you approve of the effort being focussed on ensuring we get feedback that is identical and above reproach.

Whilst the ability to respond to such a survey by email or via an online form would be very helpful, we have in this case kept the delivery to postal submission to make the process identical and committed, this has been very a successful method with our the membership in all past surveys and I am sure we will see them provide their usual committed response.

This is not an attempt to influence an out come and I refer to you comment in the forum post:

“It seems to me that if you wanted to look as though you are seeking opinions but wanted to limit the response this would be a good way to do it. Then maybe I am very very cynical”

If we needed to do that it would be easier to not publish the survey in the public domain, rather keep it to a limited number of chosen individuals, which in fact we have made every effort to avoid with this survey.

You also ask in your email:

“May I ask if the Environment Agency is funding this research?”

Absolutely not, could you really see them funding something that may, given existing anecdotal evidence, be critical in its final analysis of their performance in respect of anglers expectation regarding many issues.

I hope this addresses your concerns about the survey and that we can expect you to submit your questionnaire expressing your feelings. May I also ask you to address this in an update to your post on the forum and encourage others to take part in what is a valuable opportunity to make a contribution to the discussion that will follow with the Agency regarding our findings.

nafac.co.uk/nafacnews/2007/12/18/views-sought-on-environment-agency-performance/

You might like to consider and promote the survey being carried out by NAFAC into Fish Theft too, this can be found at the following link:

nafac.co.uk/nafacnews/2007/12/10/fish-theft-contribute-to-a-survey-to-discover-its-severity-and-spread/

This is about enforcement issues, something that you have at the heart of your own campaign I believe.

Look forward to hearing from you on this in due course.

Seasons Greetings

David Batten
Webmaster
N.A.F.A.C.

[Gwyniadun]

I do not believe that you are being cynical at all 'Highplains'. I feel that I have wasted my time reading this post, I have not looked at the questionaire neither do I have intention to.

Has 'David Batten' put his name forward in support of your campaign? Has he read the posts on it?

He can have a hard copy of my file to the EA if he wishes, it's about 2" thick with to and fro letters. 'No more Enforcement Officers to date'.

'NAFAC' a quango organisation created as a 'sponge' between the real anglers and the EA, someone the EA can direct 'our' type of concerns to...political garbage.

No you are not being cynical Highplains, but I might be!

[highplains]

David was sent a copy of my papers and is presenting then to the committee who will consider then before expressing a view. A logical and respectable approach I thought.

When I hear back from him I will let you know.

No more bailiffs yet, I agree, but a small step in the right direction and there will be more.

Watch this space.

Your support would be welcome.

Regards,

[greyduster]

Highplains... where did you get "No more bailiffs yet, I agree, but a small step in the right direction and there will be more!"

This is a simplistic and over trusting view by far !
"
In the light of recent discussions at Machynleth theres apparently No intention by the EA to replace the recently retired bailiff on the Dyfi according to the Dyfi Assoc who met with the EA a few weeks ago, the EA made the point of saying to the committee they wanted to recruit more part timers from angling clubs in Nth Wales to make up the loss of full time staff.
This is the real face of the EA who can't be trusted any further than most of us can chuck a fly in a head wind !
The Dyfi is probably THE most important Sea trout Fishery in Wales and it is being totally ignored.
The estuary netting at Aberdyfi over the late summer and autumn has been a disgrace and been allowed to run wild.
The bailiff staff at Bangor don't have a clue how to look after this magnificent river and they are a total waste of space, besides its now rumoured they put an very inexperienced girl from Dolgellau in charge of patrolling the Dee ... this is almost criminal beyond belief considering the importance of the river and the entire length that needs protecting
There's a need to get all the MP's and AM's in Nth Wales to demand action over the increasing discrete cuts that are being instigated and stop the employment of cheap part time wannabee's which are very bad value for money in results before the asylum inmates are allowed to ruin our rivers forever
Some of the Reserves that have been on the job haven't I'm told ever reported a rod licence offender or poacher since they started so where's the so called all important PRP and quality control on the output of these people in the Bangor,Ogwen Seiont areas. there needs to be an audit of productivity to see how effective these reserve bailiffs actually are and how many cases of fishery crime they actually report personally to be seen as effective.
I don't think its many at all but I may be wrong but I'm sure those committee members and those that are involved with these New fangled trusts have the ability to raise these questions at the highest level and should do so as a matter of urgency.

[highplains]

Greyduster,

Thank you, you have picked up my poor English.

What I meant to say is that we can claim a littles success thus far, but only a little. You may be assured that this is not yet the start to the Campaign.

We are not either complacent nor idle with regard to the efforts that are required for the future. We continue to gather support and the numbers are growing and healthy, but we need more. We also need people like yourself feeding intelligence into the system. If you read the EAW review you will note that they have, at long last, admitted that they have no idea of the extent of poaching from Welsh fisheries. We need to establish the truth and make it known.

As far as I am concerned, all Welsh fisheries are critical and deserving of proper protection and we will fight for it. It may be that in the short term we have to persist with this volunteer effort, and we must to the best of our abilities, then can say with our hands on our heart - we tried.

Poaching and the manner of its execution is, as we all know, is not going to be stopped until EAW enforcement officers start gathering intelligence on the ground in the secretive locations known mainly to the poachers themselves. IN the meantime we have to be seen to be doing our best.

Please continue to help, united we have a chance, divided we will be sorely weakened.

There will be more news and more pleas for help in the future, please continue to support the Campaign.

[clwydman]

Highplains, you are quite right, however angling clubs and organisations must look at themselves to see what they can do to ensure that fish are not lost to poaching etc. As I have mentioned many times before, angling clubs all operate some method of bailliffing. Whether that be the simple expectation of members to ask to see each others membership cards or whether clubs have bailiffs. All this does however is protect the waters the clubs fish. Generally, (with the exception of the netting gangs) fish are nowhere near as vunerable on the stretches we fish as they are in the headwaters in the close season. Yet all measures of successful bailliffing seem to head towards the number of anglers caught without licience or from us anglers point of view, how many times we see the bailiffs. Frankly I feel this is a very blinkered view from the angling club perspective. The recently created Clwyd and Conwy trust opened with a blaze of publicity. What has been done thus far? what are the priorities? Who have these priorities been shared with and how? We as anglers also need to move forward in our thinking and up river in our actions. This year I have seen more fish in the head waters than I have seen for many years if ever. Brilliant! But the eggs and parr of these returning fish need to live in the upper reaches for the next two years at least. Yet we are told that many of the spawning tributaries are severely polluted by sheep dip. The angling clubs know about this, the EA know about this, the trusts know about this. What is being done? bugger all from what I can see. I have volunteered to take water samples, to take training to study invertebrate life. Has anything come of it? no!. I strongly feel that if by some miracle we secured the bailiffing structure that ought to be protecting or rivers tomorrow, the numbers of fish returning would continue to dwindle because we are not looking after the nursery areas on our rivers. What continues to happen at the moment is that the clubs, federation, EA and us anglers take the easy option. i.e. "We cannot do anything about the headwaters, we do not control the fishing" absolute bloody rubbish and I am sick of hearing that comment. I have harped on about this for ten years or more and it always falls on deaf ears. We only need to open communication with land owners on the upper reaches. Most of them would be only to glad to have streams fenced off etc. Your comments of "united we have a chance, divided we will be sorely weakened" is absolutely correct. But we must be united on all fronts and firstly we need to be united as anglers that we are the biggest group of moaners who are not prepared to do anything to make a difference to help ourselves. That is why stocks will continue to decline. That is why canoeists will win the right to free access ....................the list goes on and on.
My support for the campaign as you know Highplains is 100%. I am willing to help in any way I can to maintain and improve fish returns on the rivers I fish. The sad thing is that the campaign is the only thing I have been asked to help in. How many others are in the same boat I ask?

[highplains]

Clwydman,

Thanks, as usual, for a well thought out posting. I would agree with most of your comments and sympathise with the frustration you feel - it's shared.

I am, as you know, trying to co-ordinate the river watch team, which you and yours have all volunteered to join. I have a couple more who are also keen to help on the upper Clwyd. The Elwy has produced far less volunteers although I do have a few to call to ask for help. I have delayed these calls in the hope that numbers would increase.

I have divided the river into the following sections for river watchers to keep and eye on:
Sea to St Asaph
St Asaph to Denbigh
Denbigh to Ruthin
Ruthin and above including tributaries.

The estuary needs watching all season and we need coverage of the tributaries from the end of the season to the end of January - all volunteers gratefully received!

I have no volunteers yet for most of the waters. The Clwyd and Elwy angling community need to help and I need to make them aware that things are happening. It is slow and I hope that the start of the committee cycle will help.

With regard to the Federation I will try to keep you abreast of their activities, I will raise your concerns at the next Fed meeting.

With the exception of the river watch I have no idea what is going on with the Trust, but will take the matter up with the Chair when I see him at the Fed meeting and see if they wish to post some sort of notice on this forum.

I appreciate your postings as they keep me on my toes ands act as a reminder that too much Committee work is carried out without feedback to the anglers. The Fed issue will become a part of our newsletter.

Hope that helps. All other comments very welcome.

[sewinbasher]

highplains said:

Clwydman,

Thanks, as usual, for a well thought out posting. I would agree with most of your comments and sympathise with the frustration you feel - it's shared.

I am, as you know, trying to co-ordinate the river watch team, which you and yours have all volunteered to join. I have a couple more who are also keen to help on the upper Clwyd. The Elwy has produced far less volunteers although I do have a few to call to ask for help. I have delayed these calls in the hope that numbers would increase.

I have divided the river into the following sections for river watchers to keep and eye on:
Sea to St Asaph
St Asaph to Denbigh
Denbigh to Ruthin
Ruthin and above including tributaries.


I have no volunteers yet for most of the waters. The Clwyd and Elwy angling community need to help and I need to make them aware that things are happening. It is slow and I hope that the start of the committee cycle will help.

I'm happy to volunteer for the St. Asaph to Denbigh sector, I am in Denbigh & Clwyd AC and Wirral Game so am on this section a fair bit. Anywhere between the A55 and Pont Glan y Wern.

I can also look at the Elwy from Kinmel Beat 3 down to Maes Elwy as I spend a fair amount of time in the Elwy valley.

[highplains]

Greyduster,

I have just been re reading this thread and picked up on a comment you made about "very inexperienced girl from Dolgellau in charge of patrolling the Dee". I believe there is a lady enforcement officer now in charge of the Dee catchment, although I have never met her. However as she has been put on the Dee I find your comments unacceptable. Just because she is a female makes her no less worthy of the post or indeed our respect. We are working hard to persuade the Assembly to fund more bailiffs to protect Welsh fisheries and in so doing have repeatedly made it clear to the hard pressed front line staff that we are supportive of them and have nothing but respect for the work they do. They are charged with, what I believe to be an impossible task, and they need our support and help where we can give it.

I know passions are running high on the matter of enforcement but would plead with you and other forum members to refrain from having a go at any Agency bailiffs. They are not in a position to defend themselves.

[clwydman]

If you refuse to show a bailiff your licience, are they allowed to search you?

If yes, I will be fishing the Dee for Grayling next week in Llandderfel on the Bala AC waters at 10:45am and if any bailiff wants to see my licience, they will have to search me for it!!!!!!!!!!
;D ;D


Forgive my warped humour, as usual Highplains I quite agree there is no place in our hearts for sexism.
Has your wife finished all the chores you gave her yet?

[Gwyniadun]

The enforcement issues, have created a vast amount of posts on the forum. I also am concerned about 'Greydusters' post. What should and must be understood here is that we have a young, now 'not so inexpereinced' dedicated lady enforcement officer in North Wales who puts herself out on the Rivers and Lakes, sometimes working alone, protecting our fisheries. Experience comes with time and successful prosecution of wrongdoers. On the latter it appears that 'success' is now on her side, with a few more in the pipeline. Pre trial issues prevents reporting on 'successful apprehensions' and matters take months before they arrive at the final stages, in court. I fully support the sterling work done by the 'Enforcement' team, sometimes in difficult circumstances, so 'Greyduster' you are wrong, and Clwydman, (warped sense of humour) let me know exactly where and when ... a ducking in the ice cold water may well be the remedy for your ailment

[wnion]

Can I also add that she is also responsible for the Mawddach and Wnion catchment as well as the Dee catchment.

As far as I know there have been two prosecutions and one that is ongoing that she has been involved with in the Dolgellau area since she started her duties, which is probably more than her predecessors had in ten years.

I believe that in the last month two local youths were fined somewhere in the region of £600.00 each for placing a net across the Mawddach at Penmaenpool. Why this has not been reported in the press I don't know

She must be doing something right as I have been told that she has received some sort of promotion within the ranks of the EA bailiffs.

[Hoppy]

All the bailiffs in wales have my support.

In fact the lady in question has checked my ticket on more than one occassion!

Hoppy

[clwydman]

The negative mentality of anglers is a mystery to me. Two instances prior to the comments above spring to mind. Firstly the number of negative posts following the capture of that magnificent salmon on the Ness and more recently on another forum the number of nasty comments about the angler who caught a magnificent 6lb perch and now someone chooses to knock a bailiff because she is female why can we all not look on the positive side of things. What is also interesting is that although anglers are good at knocking things, generally they are not quite so good at doing something to improve things themselves! Come on Grey duster re-read your post. There are aspects of it that do not read well!