Welsh Game Fair - Gelli Aur.

[Teifi Terrorist]

For those of you that are in the area or may be interested in visiting; the Welsh Game Fair takes place this weekend on the banks of the river Towy, near Llandeilo. Usually a nice day out, with a decent amount of fishing stands in attendance.

www.welshgamefair.com/

May see some of you there.

TT.

[Glyn]

I'm stuffed for this one...got a wedding tomorrow and a hangover Sunday. It would have been nice to catch up.
Glyn

[cff]

Carmarthenshire Fishermens Federation - Formal Statement



Canoeists Access Protest at Gelli Aur Game Fair 16th June 2007.



1. This Federation appreciates that some local canoeists are aggrieved about being denied the use of the river at this year’s Game Fair, but it seems they were banned for a reason. If they had reacted properly in a more responsible manner then we are confident that an acceptable resolution could have been achieved without resort to such a puerile public display. This can only lead to upset and unnecessary disruption of the Game Fair.



2. It is obvious to us, however that they have been encouraged and exploited by the Welsh Canoe Association (WCA) in a cheap stunt to further their campaign for free access to all inland rivers - which are largely privately owned by angling clubs.



(2A. . NOTE: The stretch of the Towy concerned here is actually owned by an employees’ pension fund and required legally to produce a maximum investment return for the beneficiaries. The unfettered introduction of canoes to this hard earned fisheries property would reduce capital and rental values by as much as 90%).



3. Not only is insisting the enforcement of free access against the fundamental laws of land ownership but is also contrary to the primary principles of sportsmanship laid down by the Sports Council of Wales who actually sponsor the employment of WCA’s Access Development Officer.



(3A. NOTE: The principles of Governance are specified in SCW’s Policy document.)



4. No other sport is intimidated and bullied as is angling by the canoeists. They are seeking to encroach, without any disciplinary restraint or recompense, on to property owned by other sporting interests - angling clubs. We deplore the dismissive attitude of the SCW who repeatedly - as late as this week – and irresponsibly distance themselves from this debacle.



5. Local rivers, especially the Towy are typical of those owned by angling clubs. They are supported by working class or retired members who paid to buy the fishing rights in the first place, subscribe annually to go fishing - and still have to buy fishing licences.





6. It is ironic that this protest should take place here on the Towy, by local canoeists. In accordance with the Welsh Assembly strategy, “Climbing Higher”, at a specially convened meeting held on 14th November 2006, the Federation was authorised to investigate the feasibility of setting up a canoe club in Carmarthenshire, initially for the Towy.



7. Unfortunately, progress has been hampered, particularly along the exciting white-water reaches of the upper river, by the experiences in the local rural community of bad behaviour by some trespassing canoeists, including abuse & foul language and reports of alleged property damage. We have video and photographic evidence of misbehaviour.



8. Nevertheless, our proposed canoe club could possibly provide opportunities for white-water and touring canoes on terms similar to those offered for anglers. Unfortunately, today’s protest has not endeared CFF members to canoeists.



The protest is organised by Amman Valley and Gwendraith Paddlers with support from Llandovery & Llandysul Canoe Clubs and WCA.



Garth Roberts Hon Sec



Notes

Rights of Navigation on inland waters
From CRN News Volume 4 Number 2 June 1996
Catherine Etchell summarises the rights of water users in England and Wales

Under English and Welsh law there is, at present, no general right for one person to exercise rights over property belonging to another and there is no general public right of access to property belonging to another. The right to fish and the right to navigate are governed by the same law. The equivalent of a public right of way on land is the public right of navigation.

Historically, rights of navigation are based on commercial need and recreational navigation has followed more recently. In relative terms recreational navigation and canoeing in particular are young sports. Angling has a history going back hundreds of years. The result is that the law relating to fishing rights is well established.

It is a general principle of English law that the owner of land bordering on a watercourse also owns the bed of that watercourse up to an imaginary line drawn down the middle. The common law concerning trespass relates to water in the same way as it does to land. The owner of land fronting onto a watercourse can stop people travelling over or to that part of the watercourse owned by them in exactly the same way as they can stop people walking over their land without permission or fishing from their land into the watercourse without their permission.

[waddington]

Did anyone attend the Game Fair and if so what was it like? Did the canoing protest materialise?
Phil

[Barcud]

From the South Wales Evening Post
The mayor of Carmarthen sticks his nose in:-

CANOEISTS PROTEST IN ROW OVER RIGHTS TO RIVER USE
[e-mail]
08:30 - 20 June 2007

Fishermen and canoeists have hit rough water over the use of the River Towy.More than 50 canoeists from West Wales protested at the Welsh Game Fair at Gelli Aur, Llandelio, after they were stopped from using the river.

Now, a campaign is to be launched by the Welsh Canoeing Association asking the Assembly to allow the public greater use of rivers, as in Scotland.

Ian McCue, chairman of Gwendraeth Valley Paddlers, and chairman of Carmarthen River Festival, said: "There has been a long-standing issue between fishermen and canoeists over the use of rivers including the Towy and the Teifi.


"Currently, less than two per cent of rivers in Wales are accessible to canoeists.

"The Welsh Canoeing Association has been trying to negotiate access for canoeists to rivers for the past 40 years. But we have got nowhere."

Mr McCue said they were told the legal owners of the river would not allow the use of the river in Gelli Aur.

"All other sports using the River Towy were allowed to carry on," he added.

"Efforts made by the canoeists to find out why this decision was made drew no response from the legal owners of the river."

Mr McCue said on June 15, the Carmarthenshire Fishermen's Federation issued a statement blaming the paddlers for misbehaviour at the previous year's game fair.

They claimed some paddlers had travelled from Gelli Aur downriver to Carmarthen.

"We do not know what misbehaviour took place and we have received no complaints," added Mr McCue.

"We protested because the general public have no right to access inland waters in England and Wales as they do in the rest of the world."

Mr McCue said canoeing clubs did a huge amount of work in the community providing their services free to many local events.

Garth Roberts, chairman of Carmarthenshire Fishermen's Federation, said canoeists had been encouraged and exploited by the Welsh Canoe Association in a cheap stunt to further their campaign for free access to all inland rivers - which are largely privately owned by angling clubs.

"Local rivers, especially the Towy, are typical of those owned by angling clubs," he added.

"They are supported by working class or retired members who paid to buy the fishing rights in the first place, subscribe annually to go fishing, and still have to buy fishing licences."

The mayor of Carmarthen, councillor Aled Williams, at a meeting of the Admiral's Court at the Jolly Tar, on Friday agreed in principle that everybody should have right of access to the River Towy.

He will be making a statement on the issue at the next meeting of Carmarthen Town Council on Tuesday.

[plotter]

not without paying for a licence surely???

[DAZ]

plotter said:

not without paying for a licence surely???

Plotter.

They would quite happily pay for a license,and would jump at the chance to pay a fee if that's what it took to get access to the rivers.I am sure most of them are kind considerate people...but lots of them are down right ignorant,disrespectful @ss holes,who don't give a toss for the angler,and would come steaming through a pool with no consideration at all.

There are thousands of miles of free water around our coastline,numerous lakes etc!..why can't they paddle here?...Personaly,I don't want them on our rivers what ever the fee.

DAZ.

P.S...Who's Aled Williams?...I take it he's not a angler?

[Diawlbach]

Completely agree with your view that the money makes no difference Daz.
Anglers joined together forming Associations which bought those fishing rights with the knowledge that navigation on their river was illegal. Now this law breaking minority of canoeists challenge not only our ability to fish in tranquility but also fundamental property rights.
Canoeists will ruin our fishing and turn the rivers into roadways. The Wye at Hay is like the M4 these days, I no longer fish there despite having fished there for years based in a family home. Beautiful setting, convenient accommodation, great fishing but absoloutely ruined by a conveyor belt of noisy disrespectful canoeists who have no sympathy for the environment whatsoever. What happened there was disgraceful, commercial interests stepped in very quickly and in a matter of months the quality of fishing was destroyed.
The Welsh Assembly should be ashamed of itself to even consider allowing a minority group ruin the sport of the silent majority, if these second rate politicians believe that there are votes in it for them they should have a long hard think about what they plan to do before heading for a policy that will cause nothing but conflict its aftermath.

[DAZ]

Well Said Colin.

DAZ.

[waddington]

I completely agree with you regarding the issue of canoeists paying for access to our fisheries. Surely its about time canoeists learn to 'paddle their own canoe' rather than wingeing for help from anglers who have legitimately bought the rights to areas of rivers.
The vociferous way that the canoeists are campaigning does worry me as to what the future holds. It does seem an unfortunate fact today that this aggressive campaigning style does attract media interest and therefore government attention. We can only hope that the decent considered argument of our angling representatives and the justice of our position holds sway with the politicians.
Phil

[silvertourist]

Hi Guys
sorry for the lack of participation but I have been pretty busy with the season start out here and dont always have access to network.

Apart from the fact that cannoeists have no respect and a total disregard for anglers when negotiating waters they should pay some sort of levy. Maybe an idea would be to set up something similar to a toll type charge for stretchs of waters as we do on roads in Norway. A system could incorporate a daily, weekly or monthly fee On a rising scale allowing passage through certain landowners waters. Of course this would need the co-operation of those landowners for that specific stretch of water with a start and end point. The cannoesists would also have to display the permit on an arm band. Any one not doing so can be challenged, reported and fined. The land owners could use a certain percentage for some bank repair etc and it may deter cannoeists enough from irritating anglers. Of course this does not take in to consideration of transfering possible infections from water to water. It could also be madatory that all cannoes and equipment have to be sprayed with disinfectant at the start point as we have to on some rivers here, (another charge).

It would be relativley simple to set up with permits, a similar system as we have here for some fishing licences, just needs the co-operation of the land owners. Just something for consideration. A river passage tax, a type of road tax. there is no such thing as a problem, its just a solution waiting to be found.

Mike