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Post by Hoppy on Nov 10, 2006 0:11:07 GMT -1
I attended the Denbigh meeting this evening, which had a very good turn out with representatives from the Dee & Clwyd areas. Coarse, Game and Sea anglers all attended.
After the opening speech from the Environment Council, the floor was handed over to Andy Schofield of the EAW.
Andy was very professional and presented himself excellently in front of a group of angry/opinionated anglers! It must have been an extremely difficult position to be in!
I was also enlightened to know that Andy has a varied fisheries background and that he is passionate about his job.
The EAW presentation was very statistical, it clearly showed the fact that Bailiffs had decreased in Wales.
It also showed that the EAW have a budget of £4m.
The statistics showed that reports of poaching were decreasing, however i personally do not think that these figures can be relied upon, as the EA themselves state that poaching is difficult to quantify. Press releases this year also suggest that poaching is increasing, in one article it has tripled.
I do think that poaching is still happening, however its a secretive crime and doesn't often attract attention! Statistics can never provide a true picture of crime!
There is still a market for poached Salmon & Sea Trout in the pubs & restaurants of Wales. However without a market, perhaps this would change. The only option i see working is carcass tagging with increased powers of search for EAW officers.
Andy did his best to answer the floor, or the 'baying crowd'!
The majority of attendees participated in the exercises and I'm sure there will be lots of feedback for WAG.
The exploitation of the Dee estuary was high on the list of concerns and numerous issues were discussed. Hopefully the EAW will be able to report back on this.
I had interesting conversation with Graeme Harris and Pete Charleston (North Wales Police) about the issue of enforcement and tried to get my views across. Our views definitely differ on the subject of enforcement.
Having attended and listened I don't think that we will ever see a return to the late 1980's when there were nearly 70 Bailiffs on the river banks of Wales, nor do i think we will see a dramatic increase in the bailiff numbers in North Wales - whilst this would be the best option the so called 'bobby on the beat' with ears to the ground, i really cant see it happening - its a terrible shame.
Further to that, i think that the honorary bailiff scheme has some pitfalls, one being that if a bailiff is injured - and the EAW sued - would this mean the end of the scheme? There are some major issues here. However as an interim measure, i do favour this scheme, if those concerned are given the right equipment, the right training and most importantly Support of the EAW and Clubs.
The changes in the law mean that Citizens arrest powers are no longer in force for members of the public in respect of fisheries offences - so club bailiffs now appear to be evidence gatherers?
I also think that the police would be hard pushed to attend incidents of poaching - so we cant rely on our local police.
There would have to be a dramatic increase in funding to WAG for the numbers of bailiffs to return to the 1980 levels, and i don't think that this will come. It is worrying, fish stocks aren't as they were, and bailiffs stocks aren't as they were - they are now both endangered species!
So where next, what happens now? Hopefully the feedback from these meetings, the appeal to WAG will have an impact.
More importantly with predicted rises in fish returning to our rivers following the cessation of Irish Drift Nets will poaching increase! If so how will this be tackled? As one delegate said, this issue is time critical, and we must act now.
I would be interested to hear how the other meetings go!
Enlightening yes, satisfactory outcome - who knows?
Hoppy
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Post by wnion on Nov 10, 2006 10:19:26 GMT -1
I also think that the police would be hard pushed to attend incidents of poaching - so we cant rely on our local police. news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/6100138.stmI totally agree with you Hoppy; hardly any Police to be seen walking the streets of our towns, no chance of them walking the river banks ! Another good reason to get rid of Tony and his cronies. Labour has done bugger all for the countryside and country pursuits, most of these river improvement grants have come from the EU.
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Post by highplains on Nov 10, 2006 11:10:13 GMT -1
I await with interest the feedback and outcome from the meeting. I suspect the EAW were surprised by the numbers that turned out; it was very well attended all things considered.
I agree with Paul that Andy Schofield acquitted himself well. However I was bitterly disappointed that he mentioned that the lack of visible bailiffs was due to the fact that they are involved in covert operations. You will all recall that when asked how many covert operations had been carried out in the whole of Wales in the previous 12 months we were told 10. However Andy was addressing a North Wales audience and over that period, of the 10 covert operations in the whole of Wales 1 - yes one, had been carried out in North Wales. I am afraid after that Mr Schofield will have a great deal of work to do to earn my respect or trust in the future!
I think the thing to do now is to await the outcome; but in the meantime keep up the pressure.
The EAW management view still seems to be that poaching is not an issue, so if you are aware of, or hear of any poaching incidents please note them on the forum so that we can keep records.
I thought it worth mentioning that Paul took the time to mention to the meeting our admiration for the bailiffs and thanks for the work they do under such difficult circumstances. Nice one Paul!
We live in hope!
Regards.
Highplains
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Post by dangler on Nov 11, 2006 10:55:56 GMT -1
I have to disagree with Wnion. Tony and his cronies have had a huge influence in the countryside and country pursuits. Sadly though, it has all been entirely negatie and hugely damaging.
Mike
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Post by Hoppy on Nov 12, 2006 8:32:54 GMT -1
I have pondered the issues for a few days now, after leaving the meeting feeling deflated.
I think that i will await to see the responses from the other meetings - and then see how the EA feedback to WAG.
I have thought of one option, which would involve all of anglers of Wales, from all disciplines - Coarse, Game and Sea.
Perhaps we should strongly consider a March on the Welsh Assembly. A totally peaceful rally to show our concerns and take it direct to WAG.
These protests do work, the Countrside Alliance March - had an impact on the wording of the Hunting Bill - The Stop Now campaign in Eire - was instrumental in the Government ending drift net fishing.
Its worth considering
Hoppy
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Post by highplains on Nov 13, 2006 13:31:55 GMT -1
Fellow forum members, Andy Schofield said at the meeting that he had sent out 500 letters of invitation to these meetings. So far I have heard of one person having received an invitation direct from the EAW. Will you please make inquiries to see if you can discover other recipients. Strangely at our meeting in St Asaph, when I mentioned the lack of publicity being given by the EAW to the consultation document"Delivering better salmon fisheries" Mr Schofield said he had no mechanism for sending these details to clubs. Now if I were to be cynical, which I may be, Mr Schofield is in a position to say he directly invited 500 to attend these meetings but only ? actually turned up. Now I am not saying or even implying that this may happen, but just in case can we trace any of the 500 who actually received these invites? I look forward to some feedback please. Regards. Highplains
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Post by highplains on Nov 28, 2006 9:29:30 GMT -1
Members will recall that we complained about the time allowed to organise attendance at the EAW consultation meetings. Mark Isherwood again took up our cause with the Minister here is his response. Thanks to Mark Isherwood for his continued support. Regards. Highplains
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Post by wnion on Nov 28, 2006 10:55:17 GMT -1
You should be congratulated for raising this point with Mr Isherwood as well highplains. A friend of mine pointed out that this is a common tactic with Government bodies such as the EA and CCW; they give short notice about public meetings or publicise the fact in some obscure newspapers that is hardly read by anyone. They then announce that there was no public interest when the turnout is low! Did anyone else other than highplains and Hoppy attend any of these workshops ? It would be interesting to know how many people attended in other parts of the country.
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Post by highplains on Nov 28, 2006 11:26:17 GMT -1
Wnion,
My big worry is the fact that the "consultation" paper Delivering Better Salmon Fisheries is hidden away on the Environment Agency web site with a closing date of 15th December for comments. It looks as though the response to this document could well be a major influence on future EA policy and the angling community seems to be blissfully unaware of the implications. The full document is on the forum and a search under "delivering better salmon fisheries" should locate if. Please reply to Liz Black telling her if we don't protect our fisheries the future of our fisheries will become academic! Thanks for your kind words. Regards. Highplains
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Post by elwyman on Nov 28, 2006 12:56:15 GMT -1
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Post by Teifi Terrorist on Nov 28, 2006 16:53:53 GMT -1
Did anyone else other than highplains and Hoppy attend any of these workshops ? It would be interesting to know how many people attended in other parts of the country. Hi Wnion, I attended the one in Carmarthen, along with another 30(ish) people. It was a fair turnout, with some areas/rivers being very well represented - including Gethyn (nightowl) who puts one hell of a lot back into the sport, usually without thanks, fair play to the gent. It was also nice to see the likes of Moc Morgan there, another ambassador of the sport who battles for out future. However, who's there to carry the flag after they finish their work? As both, and I'm sure they'll forgive me for saying, are not getting any younger. I was slightly disappointed at the turnout from the Teifi representatives. Granted, it was short notice, and, perhaps, people couldn't get time off work. Forgive me if I'm mistaken, but I think that I was the only representative from the Teifi in the meeting (not trying to make myself out to be some sort of martyr), and I'm not a committee member, secretary or chair. Perhaps they went to one of the other meetings (I know Diawlbach went to the Cardiff one?), or perhaps they didn't see any issues needing to be raised? Either way, I can't see much point in 'grinding axes' when talking to one another on the river bank or tackle shop complaining about the sad state of play if they couldn't be bothered to turn up to such meetings to air their views. Again, my apologies if they attended one of the other meetings, or if they were unaware of the meeting. I thought the meeting was quite informative, as for being constructive; only time will tell. Some superb views were aired, and I must say that it really was a learning experience for me. I truly hope that the EA will take note of some of the points raised, as they seem to have on the night. TT.
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Post by Paul Dunstan on Nov 28, 2006 22:36:25 GMT -1
Steffan raises a very valid, sensitive and difficult point.
There is an old political truism that we 'get the representation that we deserve' which may be 'true' but it is also insulting to those people who do attend these meetings.
For many of us it is impossible to be there and we rely heavily on our friends and fellow anglers to promote our points of view, concerns and ambitions. However, courtesy of fora like this, Gethyn's site and others we do have a voice and through this medium we are able to empower people who can represent us at these meetings.
Perhaps, in future, it might be possible, if there's a published agenda, to all contribute our points of view and present it to the meeting as being from 'THE FORUM' - an established group who have a very real interest and a lot invested in the future of Welsh Fisheries.
(Oh God! - I'm turning into an internet Socialist!)
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Post by Hoppy on Nov 28, 2006 23:06:24 GMT -1
Paul I attended one of the meetings in St.Asaph with Highplains. During the meeting the concerns raised on the forums were raised continually! Im sure that this forum and Gethyn's were instrumental in the meetings being arranged. I was also very surprised at how many people knew who i was and knew of the forum. Whilst people do not always join, alot of influential people in the game angling world read the pages day in, day out We must continue to defend the fish on all fronts, whether it be enforcement, pollution, habitat improvement, stocking, canoes et al. The forum is a great place to raise the issues, and be assured i have a heavy dosier of information, of which the majority has come from the forums. People are starting to sit up and listen, and some very large clubs and associations are stepping up to the mark in respect of the protection of fish stocks. (I will expand on this next month ). Whilst some think that we are pi**ing in the wind with our efforts, The EA must realise that angling pressure was integral in the cessation of Irish drift nets. If we have universal support for our cause we will win. The bottom line is that we are anglers, customers of the EA and we are concerned. Funding of the EAW is a major contributing factor, but now WAG (Welsh Assembly Government) will be informed of the situation from anglers. Hoppy
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Post by Paul Dunstan on Nov 28, 2006 23:17:44 GMT -1
People are starting to sit up and listen, and some very large clubs and associations are stepping up to the mark in respect of the protection of fish stocks. (I will expand on this next month ). This is excellent news because, in my experience, some large associations continue to adopt a 'head in the sand' approach to their responsiblities in respect of fish stocks, habitat and 'angling habits' - if you know what I mean!
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Post by DAZ on Nov 28, 2006 23:38:44 GMT -1
People are starting to sit up and listen, and some very large clubs and associations are stepping up to the mark in respect of the protection of fish stocks. (I will expand on this next month ). This is excellent news because, in my experience, some large associations continue to adopt a 'head in the sand' approach to their responsiblities in respect of fish stocks, habitat and 'angling habits' - if you know what I mean! It's not just the large associations Paul-if you know what I mean!
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Post by highplains on Nov 29, 2006 11:29:58 GMT -1
Hoppy is quite right, we are the customers and if we persist we will be heard and we will influence the way the EAW performs. I think the issue of funding is important, but what, I think, is more important is the apparent mind set of the Agency management. They are convinced that poaching is not an issue and that there is no real threat to the stocks from poaching and as long as they persist with that delusion we will find it difficult to change their attitude. We need to continue to highlight poaching incidents and to record them on the forum.
We also need to spread the word. Hoppy works hard to give priority to any campaign issues and is ALWAYS at the forefront on behalf of the angling community. He traveled miles to attend the St Asaph meeting. Thanks Paul!
We need to push for greater participation. Please encourage your angling friends to join the forum and to participate in all these discussions.
It is now the time of year for completing your catch returns for the EA. Can I please ask that when you fill them in you write across the bottom of the return "Anglers demand more enforcement officers on our rivers" Every little helps!!
All the best
Highplains
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Post by Gwyniadun on Nov 29, 2006 15:33:33 GMT -1
Not sure if this is the right place for this but yesterday at 5pm as a result of some in depth investigations to various issues on the Dee Estuary, this 'Mitten Crab' was brought ashore, kept in bowl overnight and presented at my home at 11am this morning. As soon as the lid was taken off the bowl, he was out and on bringing the camera for a closeup, it turned ready to fight. It is reported that this chap can enter river systems, cross land from water for miles and enter other river systems, surviving in clear water, munching everything in its path including fish eggs..if so... then in time we will not need Enforcement as there will be nothing left to protect. Search Google 'Chineese Mitten Crab' and see for yourself. Gwyniadun
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Post by Hoppy on Nov 29, 2006 16:03:58 GMT -1
'In Asia, the mitten crab is considered a delicacy. The gonads, which ripen during migration, are particularly prized and this could be the key to controlling its expansion.'Mmm Crab balls!
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Post by DAZ on Nov 29, 2006 16:11:02 GMT -1
As if we haven't got enough trouble with forigen imergrants Now these bloody things DAZ.
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Post by rwgbridgend on Nov 29, 2006 18:08:58 GMT -1
Gents,
I attended the meeting at pontypridd. The turnout was about 20. quite a poor representation considering the number of clubs in the locality. I think that i brought up some valid points and certainly made my voice heard. I spoke personally to Mr Andy Schofield at the meeting who i can state is an avid reader of the forum!
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