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Post by Teifi Terrorist on May 4, 2008 8:26:22 GMT -1
your right its the fashion that sells the line. Afraid not Peter. Again, a case of horses for courses. It certainly does have it's uses, and at times standard mono would fit the situation better. If we were to take the stand-point that all advances in fishing was 'fashion' then we would still be using horse-hair as leader material! Fluorocarbon is just another part of the kit/armory, that can be utilised when needed - certainly not the answer for all fishing situations, but certainly for many. I'm talking generically here, not just for sea-trout fishing. Bap, agree regarding pro-clear, not the greatest, unfortunately. Also agree regarding stroft (GTM), great stuff, and great diameter to B/S ratio. Have bought a spool of the 14lbs stuff to try for the sewin this year - it's softer than pro-gold, but worth a try. TT.
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Post by DAZ on May 4, 2008 8:56:31 GMT -1
Short and sweet and my two pence worth.
Fluro does have it's uses for me but,only for daytime use,and thats when the water is gin clear,if it was carrying a touch of colour I wouldn't bother.I would 'never' waste my money on it for night time work except for the odd occasions when I use the surface lure.
'Pro Gold' is the best by far IMHO!,it's extremely strong stuff,with superb knot strength,also, very good value for money!.
DAZ.
P.S...Be careful when using the higher breaking strains ie; 15lbs,it's immensely strong and prone to snapping fly lines.....Innit Steff. ;D
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Post by cullster on May 4, 2008 9:00:48 GMT -1
And rods ;D ;D
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Post by dai on May 4, 2008 9:44:40 GMT -1
Nylon for me, I used fluorocarbon and could'nt get it to sink even when de-greased, airflo it was. Dont understand that, have used most fluorocarbons and have never had that problem at all Dai..
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Post by dai on May 4, 2008 9:47:49 GMT -1
Amazing! Flourocarbon, because of its molecular structure sinks approximately 4 times faster than mono. I've never used the Airflo product but I think it's a bit extreme to brand all flourocarbon as crap![/quote] Paul your spot on there. Dai
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Post by dai on May 4, 2008 10:01:18 GMT -1
As regards standard mono, have used pro gold in the past. had a big batch of it sent to me to try out in b/strains from 8lb to 18lb , and have to say it is very good line and i would be more than happy to use it. But most of the time i do use Nash Bullet mono, and have to say it is the best mono i have ever used, for knot strength and a good handling line no memory at all. And i am sure that they come from the same maker Suffix which also have very good lines out, synergy and titanium both in clear and colored And also as TT said you can buy these lines in bulk spools which works out a lot cheaper to buy, just load them on to smaller spools. And you will find, like Daz said pro gold is very strong, because these lines are made by the makers to break at a higher strain than what it does say on the box. 10lb/15lb b/s, 15/ 18lb b/s, and 18lb/ 25lb b/s. have seen these tests done. plus if you get hold of the tackle box catalog all the tests done are in it with all the results. Dai
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Post by DAZ on May 4, 2008 10:03:18 GMT -1
And rods ;D ;D It does to....I forgot about that!. ;D
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Post by watermole on May 4, 2008 12:36:21 GMT -1
This is something which I too have wondered about-but was afraid to ask!!
I started using fluorocarbon three seasons ago. As the only fishing I do is at night, it would seem that I have been wasting my money and should have stayed with nylon mono, if the general consensus of opinion is to be accepted. However, I do feel that on the small, faster-flowing river, of only a few yards width, there is a definate advantage to be gained from fluoro-c. as it cuts through the water and sinks so much quicker. This may not mean much when you are fishing a much wider, or slower-flowing water, but when seconds of actual fishing time really count, and you may only get perhaps, one contact per night, anything which will turn the heavily-loaded bias a little in your favour should be considered...
I also find that the additional stiffness of fluoro-c. helps in laying the fly straight. The only nylon to have similar properties was the 'Tynex' brand, which was bought from the F.O.G. group.
The mention of b.s. up to 19 lbs or so-and broken rods, I find incredible and wonder, just how much strain, some of you put on a fish!! Surely, no sea-trout rod should lift more than 2-3lbs. dead weight Even allowing for less-than-perfect knots, isn't 18-19lbs a little OTT? I mean of course, for fishing within these shores, not elsewhere in the world. I find that the heavier gauges definately reduce the swimming action of the fly, and that the thinner you can safely use, the better.
As far as this rod is concerned, anything which helps to increase the odds in my favour, is fine. We never quibble much about line, rod or reel prices, why stint on the most important end of the outfit?
Wm.
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Post by Paul Dunstan on May 4, 2008 13:44:56 GMT -1
The mention of b.s. up to 19 lbs or so-and broken rods, I find incredible and wonder, just how much strain, some of you put on a fish!! Surely, no sea-trout rod should lift more than 2-3lbs. dead weight Even allowing for less-than-perfect knots, isn't 18-19lbs a little OTT? I mean of course, for fishing within these shores, not elsewhere in the world. I find that the heavier gauges definately reduce the swimming action of the fly, and that the thinner you can safely use, the better. Wm. It's an interesting exercise to attach a digital or spring ballance to the business end of your usual fishing setups and see how much of a 'pull' (not very scientific I know) you can exert - the answer is surprisingly little! Years ago, I watched an experiment where someone held a 4oz lead on the palm of their hand and 100yds away an angler 'struck' using an 11ft beachcaster - the lead didn't move from the palm of the hand! The use of 18 - 20lb BS has nothing to do with the size of fish or the desire to put 'strain' on them - but is a reflection of the mechanics of casting large, air resistant or heavy flies. I think we all use as light a leader as is practical - given the circumstances that are presented to us. Having said that - I definitely don't spend money on 15lb flourocarbon! ;D
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Post by Paul Dunstan on May 4, 2008 13:47:42 GMT -1
............... and as for broken rods...... you guys must be using some dodgy kit - get a proper rod! ;D
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Post by DAZ on May 4, 2008 13:52:33 GMT -1
The mention of b.s. up to 19 lbs or so-and broken rods, I find incredible and wonder, just how much strain, some of you put on a fish!! Surely, no sea-trout rod should lift more than 2-3lbs. dead weight Even allowing for less-than-perfect knots, isn't 18-19lbs a little OTT? I mean of course, for fishing within these shores, not elsewhere in the world. I find that the heavier gauges definitely reduce the swimming action of the fly, and that the thinner you can safely use, the better. Dave,lines and rods are generally not broken on the fish but when getting hung up on a snag and trying to pull free. I would also have to agree that 18 - 19lbs is a little ( alot ) OTT and that it would restrict movement in the fly/flies. I would go as far as 15lb for surface lure work,and generally use a maximum of 12lb for sunk line work.Like I have stated,Pro Gold is extremely strong stuff,I actually straitened a TMC 3761 size 4# on 12lb Pro Gold just the other day!. no fish is ever going to do this,and the day a fish snaps me off with this stuff is the day I pack it in because,I am almost certainly doing something wrong!.I also find it unbelievable that people loose fish through the hook straighting "on a fly rod",what the hell are they doing. I can honestly say that I have never come close to doing this,even on relatively fine wire hooks and I am hard on fish,quite brutal actually.The only one that puts me to shame is john Wilson. ;D 12lb is more than enough to handle anything that swims our waters IMO!.I would not go any higher than this in Pro Gold for reasons I have give.There is a strong possibility that you will snap your main line....Wicked stuff it is. DAZ.
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Post by Teifi Terrorist on May 4, 2008 14:41:18 GMT -1
I would also have to agree that 18 - 19lbs is a little ( alot ) OTT and that it would restrict movement in the fly/flies. Not really mate, because the one I was commenting on has a smaller diameter than 12lbs pro gold! We tend to get preoccupied with breaking strains in the UK without viewing it in conjunction with the diameter, which is often a big mistake. these lines are made by the makers to break at a higher strain than what it does say on the box. Yup, heard the same thing of maxima ultragreen too Dai. The mention of b.s. up to 19 lbs or so-and broken rods, I find incredible and wonder, just how much strain, some of you put on a fish!! PaulD is exactly right David, these leader strengths are often not utilised because of the size of the fish expected, but for the other benefits they bestow. Having said that, I have seen 15lbs maxima ultragreen snapped by a sewin that decided to run when played out under the rod tip - I was standing right next to my friend when it happened. And rods ;D ;D It does to....I forgot about that!. ;D You know what you 2 can do!!! TT.
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Post by spyderweb on May 4, 2008 16:25:12 GMT -1
hi TT, caught you in my web. the equalizer, 1-1 , tongue in cheek did you say? spyderweb.
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Post by dai on May 4, 2008 18:09:06 GMT -1
I also find that the additional stiffness of fluoro-c. helps in laying the fly straight. The only nylon to have similar properties was the 'Tynex' brand, which was bought from the F.O.G. group. David, i think we understand how use full stiff mono`s are when fly fishing, helping to lay you leader out nice and straight but all these stiff mono`s do have the problem of being very thick for b/s, the one you are talking about Tynex is one of the worst you can get. i remember having a few spools off Saville. cracking stuff for turning your cast over with small or big flies, but as you say when tying you flies to these lines it does make the movement of you flies rubbish. i would be more then happy to use lines up to 19/20lb. but when you do this you change you knots, on small flies i use grinner and some times tucked blood knot, but very often now more so the grinner. but for these heavy lines i use a rapala knot and you would not believe the difference it makes to the movement of your flies with a loop knot. next time you are out on the river try it on big and small flies in the fast water and in slow water, think you would be very in pressed how the movement of the fly changes with just doing a different knot , mybe i should have stayed about this one.. And will say i do not go below 15lb b/s for my Sewin and Bass fly fishing. some say it`s heavy, but will say i was very glad i was using it when i had my PB fly caught Salmon on a 8 weight single hand fly rod in the dark, by the way it was 22lb 08oz. plus i have lost some very big fish with line parting but line does get damaged when fishing and thats why i fish heavy line. As i like to come off the river like this , not like this . Dai
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Post by DAZ on May 4, 2008 18:22:25 GMT -1
[Not really mate, because the one I was commenting on has a smaller diameter than 12lbs pro gold! We tend to get preoccupied with breaking strains in the UK without viewing it in conjunction with the diameter, which is often a big mistake. Forgot about that one!. I would have to question the stated B/S on some of these low diameter lines though.Don't know about that one of yours but,most I have tried have been a little OTT!. My main concern with these high B/S lines are my main line ie; fly line,snapping and not the leader. [PaulD is exactly right David, these leader strengths are often not utilised because of the size of the fish expected, but for the other benefits they bestow. . I fully agree mate. But!,12lb b/s pro gold is more than capable of turning over anything I use,but again,I'm not that worried about it,just as long has it lands somewhere resembling straight will do me. DAZ.
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Post by lochbois on May 4, 2008 19:56:14 GMT -1
My reason for asking for an opinion on mono or flouro is because i am reading all these magazines that come with the magazines and i must say thank you all for the advice but i think i will stick with my tried and trusted 10 Pound Ultra green .Last season i caught 11 sea-trout and 2 salmon all on the same line .I never got snapped by a fish, but snapped a few of on the tree just when you try that extra cast.I used to get my maxima from The Angling Centre Derby who advertised in Trout Fisherman ,are they still in business.Yours Sincerly <lochbois>
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Post by watermole on May 4, 2008 20:25:05 GMT -1
Dai, many thanks for the tips on knots! I admit to being a bit stereotyped on knot choice, mainly because I can do them (through necessity now) without a torch,if required.. Also, your comment about 'Tynex' being rather big in dia. was correct, but at the time, I never went heavier than 8lb., usually 6. There was a reason for that. The usual night, fly-line for local rivers, was an HDH double-taper, (#5-6) which was about 12-15lbs. b.s. on the tips. It was therefore prudent, to use something which would give out first! But then you must bear in mind that, the usual size of fish caught then, did not compare, did not come anywhere near, the size of fish commonly caught and regarded as run-of-the-mill, by some of our forum members today...
Many thanks to PaulD, Daz and TT for their observations and comments,-all taken on board! When you compare the dia. to b.s. ratio now, to what was regarded as the best, only a few years ago, you then realize, just how much science has improved the lines of today.
I take your point TT, about line diameter-everything noted! ....do I remember reading somewhere, that when you get snagged up, the trees usually come back ? !!! ;D No offence intended Steffan!
I still have much to learn....
Wm.
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Post by Teifi Terrorist on May 5, 2008 9:14:19 GMT -1
I fully agree mate. But!,12lb b/s pro gold is more than capable of turning over anything I use,but again,I'm not that worried about it,just as long has it lands somewhere resembling straight will do me. With this being my point exactly mate. Pro gold is .35mm. Leader material of this diameter should be able to cope with anything thrown at it (or on it). However, due to the different properties of different materials some are better for turning over bulkier flies than others even if they have the same diameters - hence why I would sometimes utilise hard fluoro for surface lures, which are the most bulky flies you are ever likely to throw. do I remember reading somewhere, that when you get snagged up, the trees usually come back ? !!! ;D Indeed David, indeed! ;D TT.
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Post by dai on May 5, 2008 10:02:03 GMT -1
Dai, many thanks for the tips on knots! I admit to being a bit stereotyped on knot choice, mainly because I can do them (through necessity now) without a torch,if required.. Also, your comment about 'Tynex' being rather big in dia. was correct, but at the time, I never went heavier than 8lb., usually 6. There was a reason for that. The usual night, fly-line for local rivers, was an HDH double-taper, (#5-6) which was about 12-15lbs. b.s. on the tips. It was therefore prudent, to use something which would give out first! But then you must bear in mind that, the usual size of fish caught then, did not compare, did not come anywhere near, the size of fish commonly caught and regarded as run-of-the-mill, by some of our forum members today... No problem David, under stand all all about tying knots in the dark, it does help to be able to do them in the dark. My eyes do suffer the need to have glass in front of them a lot these days when tying knots . But do try that knot i was saying about, it is mad the difference it makes in the movement of you flies, large and small. Dai
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Post by tuniwes on May 5, 2008 15:40:13 GMT -1
............... and as for broken rods...... you guys must be using some dodgy kit - get a proper rod! ;D Have you forgotten about the bend at Emlyn, an extremely innocent looking tree and a certain Loomis of yours?? ;D Ian
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