KEEP THE MOMENTUM - APPEAL TO THE WELSH ASSEMBLY

[clwydman]

Ok lets really put the cat amongst the pigeons. Mass refusal to pay for a salmon Licience! As anglers on the River Clwyd what in real terms have we being paying our licience for? A fish pass up one waterfall in I dont know how many years. That is it. Oh yes the EA will state that they strip fish from the Clwyd etc but I again state the mortality rate for Sea trout fry and parr in Maerdy hatchery is very high and few salmon have been stripped from the Clwyd in recent years. So what are we getting for our money?
It would be interesting to say the least if the little boffins in the data collection unit in EA .HQ. spot a blip in their Welsh licence data, the number of salmon licences taken out and stating as fishing the River Clwyd has plummeted this year, would they send out the 'covert operations team I wonder?'
What really is sad and pretty much sums up organisations such as the EA is that there will be far more people working in the public relations department or in the statistics department than is actually working out in the environment as it were. Would it not be a good idea to invite people such as this Mr Mills (covertly of course) to address as many angling clubs as possible. It would be interesting to see if 1- he would come and 2- if the depth of feeling would have any effect at all.

Keep it up everyone it would appear to me that the truth whilst well hidden is beginning to trickle out of the EA ship.

[clwydman]

HIGHPLAINS AND CO. BIG NEWS!
Had reports today from my father who fished the Glan y Wern stretch this afternoon who spotted and identified something not seen on the River Clwyd for at least 15 years. Would you like to guess!
Lampreys? No
King fisher? No seemn loads of them
A big Eel? Sadly no like many other rivers the eel is rarer and rarer
Greater spotted wood pecker? No
A Flood? sadly no still no water
It was..................................................................................................................... ......................................................................................................................... ......................................................................................................................... ......................................................................................................................... ..............................................................................................................
A Bailiff, yes I know you must be amazed, but it was a real life water Bailiff complete with stab vest and everything checked his licience and had a pleasant chat. Described by my Father as a really decent fellow. It is delightful to see these all too rare creatures back on the river again and long may it continue to thrive and blossom!

It might just be working keep it up

[rwgbridgend]

We also had some sightings of this species on the river Ogmore last week! but there wasn't one or even two but THREE!

They have started to carry out high visibility patrols once or twice a week.

Lets hope more sightings occur throughout wales!

[highplains]

Clwydman,

It has to work or there will be no fish.

We have to all keep the pressure on and keep producing the evidence that poaching is a problem and not a figment of our imaginations as Mr Mills seems to think.

Tight lines.

Highplains.

[highplains]

To one and all,

It seems that there has been positive activity on the Ogmore, the Conwy and now the Clwyd. May be that the EAW is doing this at this time so that it can defend its up to now indefensible position?

There is an old adage "divide to rule". We must not deviate from our goal!

Relocating a few of the thin on the ground enforcement staff for a day or two will not solve the problem, nor will it make it go away Mr EAW!

All the best

Highplains

[Gwyniadun]

Exactly Highplains!

I agree with those sentiments and reiterate, we do not have a problem with the 'Enforcement Staff' it is with the management policies that have depleted their strength.

Gwyniadun

[clwydman]

Absolutely as I stated on the Conwy initiative thread, that is just spin, advertise the little bit we are doing in one place and everyone will think we are doing that everywhere, a typical approach by management of the EA.

[highplains]

Thought members may like to read the following from the North Wales Daily Post.

Poacher police Aug 31 2006




By Andrew Forgrave, Daily Post


ANGLERS are being asked to join a new "neighbourhood watch" system to thwart spiralling fish poaching on Welsh rivers.

The Conwy river catchment is the first in Wales to trial the new set-up introduced this month by Environment Agency Wales (EAW).

Trusted anglers will act as middle men by passing on poaching information from the fishing community to EAW bosses.

The agency admits the new measures are necessary because its national 0800 hotline for reporting suspicious activities isn't working.

Bank anglers have also become increasingly annoyed at the disappearance of EAW bailiffs from Welsh rivers.


Project leader Ken Parry said: "The general angling public feel aggrieved at the depletion of bailiff resources over the last 20 to 30 years.


"We now need to improve the perception of the way we do our job."


Around 20 individuals have already been signed up to the project following a meeting in Betws y Coed.


The agency stresses these volunteers will act as observers, not vigilantes.


Information collected by these observers will passed to the EAW offices in Bangor.


It is hoped this will allow EAW bailiffs to build amore accurate picture of on-going problems and respond more effectively.


The data will also be used by the agency to lobby government for more funding. Last month a further £300,000 was axed from its fisheries


budget, the latest in a series of cuts.


In June the Federation of Clwyd Angling Clubs (FCAC) wrote to Wales' countryside minister Carwyn demanding immediate action against poaching.


It said illegal fishing is rife with just four pairs of enforcement officers covering 3,470 miles of river in North Wales. At one time 24 officers worked in North Wales alone.


FCAC research officer Allan Cuth-bert claimed that one of Wales' most valuable natural resources was being "squandered".


Poachers can earn more than £300 for a night's work, and Llanelli Angling Association recently reported seeing a poaching gang at 3.50am on a nursery lake which is stocked with £11,500 of fish-a-year.


In July EAW relaunched its "buyer beware" scheme to alert fishmongers,


restaurateurs and hoteliers about the dangers of buying fish from uncredited sources.


Anglers themselves, concerned at falling salmon and sewin stocks, have responded by forming anew, more powerful body, the Federation of Welsh Anglers (FWA).


This umbrella group represents three organisations: the Welsh Salmon and Trout Angling Association, Federation of Sea Anglers and the Federation of Coarse Anglers.


Mr Parry admitted communications with anglers had to improve.


He said: "Last year the agency hot-line received just 138 fishery calls, few of which were followed up because the quality of the information was poor.


"In contrast we had 1,500 calls for waste offences, such as fly-tipping, which resulted in several prosecu-


tions. I hope that with the new system we can get fisheries crime on apar with waste."


The new Conwy river crimewatch scheme is the first initiative to emerge from areview of fisheries enforcement in Wales ordered by the Assembly earlier this year.


Organisations on board include North Wales Police, North Wales Sea Fisheries and Conwy Valley Fisheries and Conservation Association (CVFCA), which represents riparian landowners.


CVFCA secretary Keith Heminsley said the project was a step in the right direction.


He said: "It's important we get a better enforcement situation and if this is the first step, we will be happy to support it."

[wnion]

E A reply to above article published in Daily post ,letters section ,September 6.

Fish Police
I WRITE following the article "Poaching Police" published in the Daily Post (August 31). We are grateful that you have given such prominence to the issue and the new partnership initiative launched in the Conway Valley.
Unfortunately , the article contains a number of inaccuracies and I am keen that these be corrected in order to prevent an escalation of rumours and perceptions regarding fisheries enforcement and illegal fishing.
Your article states that"£300k was axed from its fisheries budget". In fact a cut of £400k was imposed by Defra and applied to England only.
The Assembly has just supported a fisheries project in Wales worth more than £1 million that will be delivering long term, sustainable improvements to our fisheries through habitats and access for fish to spawning areas.
I would also take issue with our 0800 hotline for reporting suspicious activities isn't working'- the fact that we have received over 1600 calls relating to waste and fishery incidents in North Wales alone clearly demonstrates that it is working.
The quantity, quality and timeliness of the information we receive is crucial. The more accurate the information the grater the likelihood that we are able to deploy staff effectively.
I would be interested to know where the evidence is for the 'spiraling fish poaching on Welsh rivers'? Whilst we are not being complacent, and are currently reviewing our effectiveness in this field, there is no hard evidence, to suggest that poaching is increasing.
Steve Moore
Northern Area Manager
Environment Agency Wales.

[DAZ]

I would be interested to know where the evidence is for the 'spiraling fish poaching on Welsh rivers'? Whilst we are not being complacent, and are currently reviewing our effectiveness in this field, there is no hard evidence, to suggest that poaching is increasing.
Steve Moore
Northern Area Manager
Environment Agency Wales.

His he living on a different planet

The quantity, quality and timeliness of the information we receive is crucial. The more accurate the information the grater the likelihood that we are able to deploy staff effectively

Has for this

Take the incident on the Ogmore a while back.How much more accurate can you be than this.
THEY ARE HERE WRIGHT NOW WITH A NET STRUNG ACROSS THE RIVER
Yet they still did not respond.[glow=red,2,300]!!!!UNBELIEVABLE!!!![/glow]

DAZ

[rwgbridgend]

EAW seem to be continuing with this tack that there is no evidence of an increase in poaching. Unless EAW get back out on the river bank, then they are not going to find any evidence!

It is a reality that most poaching prosecutions in the past have been as a result of EAW officers finding eveidence and not relying on calls to the 0800 number.

Since much poaching goes on in remote areas of the spawning grounds where anglers and members of the public rarely venture not to mention poaching during the night - how can EAW rely on calls to their 0800 number to gauge the level of poaching?

[Gwyniadun]

The EA employees that are making these statements are only interested in 'Performance Indicators' and furthermore they are from 'Non fisheries' backgrounds, in effect they do not even begin to understand.

Don't worry about that Moore chap, he's on his way from here anyway and he also has a different concept on arithmetic to the rest of us.

Sorry in advance about the snipe.

Gwyniadun

Gwyniadun

[rwgbridgend]

MEETING WITH CARWYN

Just a quick mention that I have a meeting arranged with Carwyn in a few weeks. This will be in his capacity as AM for Bridgend only and not as Minister for the Environment. Therefore i will be discussing this issue from the point of view of Ogmore Angling Association which is based in his constituency.

I will do my best to reiterate that this issue is affecting all areas of Wales and not only his constituency.

[Gwyniadun]

I wish you every luck rw, I am sure that you will do a good job, concentrate on your own area on this one, if you succeed here then the chances are that there will be a bounce on throughout Wales.

Gwyniadun

[highplains]

Fellow members,

I have it on good authority that Chris Mills of the EAW is leaving to go to the EA North West of England.

I look forward to hearing from his successor!!

Highplains

[Gwyniadun]

Talk about moving the goalposts

Gwyniadun

[wnion]

I have been told that when the EA took on other duties such as Waste Management they did not receive any additional funding; can anybody confirm this ?
If its true then its no wonder that they have cut down on bailiffs.
These are the current jobs on offer from the EA.

tinyurl.com/lwawo

As to relying on crime watch groups such as the one set up on the Conwy, I ask you who is going to patrol the rivers at night ,would any club be able to get insurance for this kind of activity ?
We strongly commend the work of the EA bailiff force that we currently have but it seems that they have an impossible task and that most of the time they are doing unproductive work ie. a large amount of their working day is spent travelling on the road considering the large area that they have to cover; you think about the time it takes a bailiff to travel from Dolgellau to Bangor or Deeside in summer traffic ,one to one and a half hours each way, 2-3 hours a day wasted travelling.
How many of these bailiffs have local knowledge of the rivers that they patrol , do they know who the local rouges are, many of these will be the local "hard nuts" and many fishermen will not report their activities or be a witness against them in court for fear of reprisals.
I have also heard that they have spent thousands on Hi-tec surveillance cameras that can be left unmanned, but because of some rule they have to put up warning signs advertising the fact that surveillance cameras are in use!

[Gwyniadun]

Well wnion, you are right on the button, would you like a job in the Welsh Assembly, or even in an over populated office block in Gwynedd!

Did a search on the link, relative to fisheries enforcement, here is the result for Wales.

0 jobs match the search criteria



Gwyniadun

[rwgbridgend]

Find attached an article from the South Wales Daily Post 22nd September. Note that the EAW comment is identical to that given in the recent Western Mail article!!

Well done to the Tawe & Tributaries Angling Association for gaining publicity from this.

ANGLERS ON PATROL AS AGENCY DUCKS OUT

NINO WILLIAMS
SWANSEA VALLEY REPORTER
[e-mail]

10:00 - 22 September 2006

Anglers in the Swansea Valley say they are having to police the river themselves because of a lack of water bailiffs.Members of Tawe and Tributaries Angling Club say the lack of Environment Agency officers on patrol means it was left to volunteers to keep an eye out for poachers, and for anglers who fish without a licence.

They say they sometimes fear the consequences if forced to confront offenders.

Club member Dave Evans, aged 56, said: "As fishermen, we pay more than £18 million a year for licences, but what are we getting in return for them?

"The rivers are unpatrolled, and the only officials you will see are those who appear on a call-out basis.

"But if an offence is taking place, it is all over by the time the officials arrive.

"It shouldn't all be left to volunteers, especially when we are paying money to the Environment Agency."

Mr Evans, a tutor with Neath Port Talbot lifelong learning unit, added that he hadn't had his fishing licence checked in the past four seasons.

In addition to poaching and checking for licences, Environment Agency enforcement officers are responsible for keeping an eye out for pollution and flood hazards.

But while some anglers are happy to act as unpaid volunteers, others fear the potential consequences of confronting offenders, without insurance or authority.

Mr Evans, who has asked local AM Gwenda Thomas to raise the issue with the Assembly, added: "Are we paying our money for people to sit behind desks?

"I don't think there has ever been a better time to be a poacher."

A spokesman for the Environment Agency said: "We currently have 11 operational enforcement staff able to deal with illegal fishing activity in the South West Wales Area, including Bridgend.

"Those staff operate legally in a covert manner, working jointly with police and other agencies targeting those posing the greatest threat to our valuable fisheries."

And he added: "Last year Environment Agency Wales successfully prosecuted more than 330 individual offenders for rod licence and poaching offences."

[kwilliams]

I feel it appropriate to dispel the Myth about the statement about the Covert patrolling by EA officers having been a member of staff within that team for almost 33 years up to November 2005.
the spokesman is talking from a well prepared Hymn sheet much akin to "Mao'e Little Red Book" and obviously with no personal field experience of the job in order to make such glib remarks!
It is certainly quite true that a lot of special Enforcement team time is spent on watching fly tipping activity thoughout the principality but what really sticks in the throat is the way in which managers constantly massage figures to reflect prosecution outcomes that are referred to in total number to include the big soft target of the rod and line offenders prosecuted which are probably 98% of the overall enforcement activity as a whole for Wales. A question through the right of access via the " Freedomn of Information Act would answer this massaged mystery quite quickly on a area by area basis of North Wales, SE Wales and SW Wales, additionally the question as to which river catchments are the busiest should also be requested regionally. this would indicate the need for manpower resources to be taken from waste enforcement duties and returned to fisheries duties.
What is missing from all river banks is routine based patrolling where you gather information from the angling community stakeholders.
it is a fact that managers tell staff that the EA doesn't have time to wander about river banks anymore and that tasks are now Intelligence based, well if you don't meet and greet the angling customers, farmers, Bird watchers and the like where the hell are you to get your intelligence from as the 0800 service is a dismal failure as everyone knows because of poor responsesare derived by complaints being desktop checked by non experienced staff usually stand by ooficers in the Environment protection teams who know little or nothing of fisheries crime activity and therefore cannot put a need for urgency on a complaint received.
It is worrying that police officers are now patrolling rivers in North Wales and seen wearing Hi Viz yellow jackets as noted in rcent press reports..... is that Covert??? no wonder no one can be caught!
when was the last poaching gang caught by an intelligence derived complaint?? I don't think anyone can answer that apart from the staf who participated in Operation Armstrong on the Afon Elwy in the 95/96 season.
I can say with experience that Environment Protection officers who are normally charged with the responsibilty for waste enforcement duties have seen fit to abdicate from participating in day to day covert duties as it fits well with conciously dumping the covert work on the former bailiffs who are conveniently trained to " hide in the Bushes "
This is and always was reprehensible but managers rammed it down everyones throat as a " Must Do " task otherwise you weren't a " team Player" and PRP scores were significantly dropped if you didn't take on this extra work and if you didn't it meant less pay which was a matter of serious contention if your face didn't fit with the regime as I found out to my cost for demanding more time and effort be given to fisheries work by bailiffs and lazy staff in the EP department be kicked to do more to take away the pressure in dealing with fly tippers.
The higher ratio of Environment Protection officers dealing with pollution and fly tipping compared to trained fishery officers is very significant and as that deptment is the trained technical section, those staff both men and women should carry out duties that are equitably apportioned to the responsibility.
Its about time staff were paid by results rather than ticking boxes of having done hypothetical desk top activities and projects in the office rather than out there where it matters most.
The reason why the EP staff don't do covert work is that mosty of it is in the evenings and at night and and their conditions of service makes it so expensive to pay them for overtime that its considered better to use lower paid fisheries staff to get the job done.
I would add that Fisheries Enforcement qualified staff have greater powers to carry out their work including the power of arrest as a " Constable" which is a very serious ability in denying an individual of his or her liberty yet they get paid a lower rate than that of EP officers who have no such highly skilled abilities and are advised not to work in the field once the street lights are switched on

The number of fully trained fishery staff who have qualified having done the internal " Essential Enforcement " course which is relative to waste and pollution duties is in reality very few overall in Wales as a whole therefore it is important to ask why fully qualified fisheries enforcement staff are doing work as unqualified personnel when others of the EP Department should be doing the work and not deflecting bailiffs ( Special Enforcement Staff) from doing what they do best !
Readers of the forum need to be far more searching and political in their quest for answers and not be fobbed away by managers who are in reality so health and safety conscious that very little actually gets done anymore which is a real shame!


Keith Williams
Former Special Enforcement Officer - Nth Wales.