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Post by Hoppy on Oct 14, 2006 21:29:09 GMT -1
This is what the EAW can do - when they are supposed to consult seatroutfishing.proboards34.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=press&thread=1159905581&page=1Plan pilot canoeing schemes on Welsh Rivers without telling the landowners of fishery representatives. In my humble opinion the EAW managers are out of control! This highlights the fact that we must go to these meetings, and have a concerns recorded, and placed into the public domain. I totally agree with Gethyn that the appointment of a Charity to oversee the meetings, having no idea what they are talking about is ludicrous and another waste of my licence fee money. It seems that the EAW are burying their heads in the sand, hoping this will just go away - hence the short notice in informing Angling groups!! Employing an arbitrator, such as this 'Environment Council' just means that the EAW can hide behind a third party when their backs are well and truly against a brickwall. I do hope that the EAW representatives attending are going to prepare themselves, as for the last year they been putting out conflicting messages, this will be raised - i.e Covert Operations! The IFSG said "No single issue has caused so much hostility towards the EA as the apparent lack of an adequate force of full-time fishery bailiffs engaged on active front-line enforcement work to combat illegal fishing in rivers, estuaries and coastal waters." they were/are right! Another season has passed and i have not had my licence checked, nor have i actually seen an EAW bailiff on duty on a river bank. Regulars of the forum will know the time i spend fishing - now not seeing a bailiff is the norm. Heres something to dwell on - A certain Small Welsh river has had a good run of Salmon this year, it is suggested that a small number of anglers (5) KILLED around 100 fish from this river, from a very small stretch, that could be described as Redds! (this figure doesnt include the other fish that were taken on the river) Im sure the EAW are aware and hopefully will be looking into this, but that rivers future is now in doubt! - Taking action against this behaviour is what i want the EAW to do - if it means tagging, catch limits DO IT! This is what the fights about, not about an angler without a licence on a lake, its about protecting fish stocks for the future, and on the river I mentioned in Wales, it might be too late. If the EAW are reading this, please impose the West Wales rivers catch limits (2 salmon a day, 5 in a week) across Wales - do what you should be doing - protect our rivers before its too late. PLEASE PLEASE GO THE MEETINGS! Hoppy
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GETHYN
Sewin Nut
Plain Sea Trout Mad
Posts: 178
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Post by GETHYN on Oct 15, 2006 6:47:26 GMT -1
Yes, my form was posted on Friday, I do appreciate all that you guy's have done to highlight this problem, the reason why I am annoyed at the whole thing, is the need to spend more money just to be told the obvious, if they, ( WAG + EAW. ) are not aware of the situation on enforcement by now, then there is no hope!!. You are dealing with a cagey lot here, who are running big agencies for the benefit of civil servants and not the tax payer.
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Post by highplains on Oct 15, 2006 9:01:29 GMT -1
Gethyn,
Its not that your annoyed, its that your passionate about the issue! You and the rest of us will win because the *.* that manage the EAW have no passion just jobs.
Nice to hear your comments and nice to know how you feel.
Thank you says it all - I hope.
All the best
Highplains
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Post by rwgbridgend on Oct 15, 2006 12:38:15 GMT -1
I read with interest the comments on the forum regarding the forthcoming meeting. I for one would rather that EAW have no input into these meetings!
A charity such as the environment council, can be trusted to collect and collate views from the meeting. Could EAW be trusted to do this?
I think it is a good idea to have a third party organising and chairing these meetings without any EAW input. Hopefully then, the true viewpoints and facts will not be stifled.
Let us not forget that EAW are preparing a report on themselves for the minister! The more input from independent bodies such as the environment council the better.
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Post by Hoppy on Oct 15, 2006 14:25:56 GMT -1
RWGBridgend, We have to be very guarded, my thoughts are that the Environment Council will become a smoke screen for the ineptitude of the EAW policy makers in respect of poaching. The EAW will be able to hide behind this 'independant' group. People must know the background of a problem, before they can make any decisions judgements. Would a judge find someone guilty without being fully aware of the circumstances of the case - i think not! The worrying thing is that very few persons in the angling world in Wales know about this. I worry for the clubs who do not have committees with access to the internet, who will be blissfully unaware of these meetings. Im sure these meetings will come as a shock to Dolgellau Angling Association, the Seiont Club, Aberystwyth AA and others - they are being treated like mushrooms (kept in the dark and fed on s**t!) 5 days notice is a joke, but more than likely a very well thought out joke - the EAW will be able to return to WAG and say that they held meetings with 'stakeholders'/ 'anglers' - (albeit that the people who should have attended werent aware until the eleventh hour), however there was very little response! Everyone who reads this must get in touch with their repsective clubs immediately, and any club that they know committee members of - tell them today or asap, else they will be forgotten.Remember the Mushroom analogy - this is what the everyday angler is at the moment - enforcement/canoes its all the same. Hoppy
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Post by Hoppy on Oct 15, 2006 14:47:27 GMT -1
I have been very active this afternoon trying to tell as many clubs about this issue as i can.
Marshall Davies of the Dolgellau AA received his letter on Saturday, and was very dubious as to the motive behind it! Luckily Marshall is on the Local Fishery Group and has made his contacts aware, they will be at the Bangor Meeting with representatives of other North Wales clubs
Hoppy
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Post by highplains on Oct 15, 2006 15:39:56 GMT -1
Well done Hoppy, you certainly deserve much credit for all your effort.
I suspect we may be faced with this last minute notice trick again in the future so it may well be worth compiling and address book of all those who would wish an urgent notification in future. If members will email me contact email addresses for fellow anglers or club secretaries and the like I will put them in a group so that we can "round robin" everybody at the click of a mouse. I can email the completed list to Hoppy.
Look forward to hearing from you.
All the best
Highplains
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Post by rwgbridgend on Oct 15, 2006 22:28:03 GMT -1
Hoppy,
I think that people are misunderstanding the reason why the environment council are involved with these meetings. EAW have been ordered by the minister to carry out a review on themselves! It would be only right that a third party chair and organise these meetings. Could you imagine the outcome if EAW had organised and chaired the meetings!
I met with Carwyn on friday and was quite catergorical when i stated that the review from EAW is going to be a sham. I have fully prepared him for the outcome of this. As for the lack of notice from EAW for the meetings, I shall be writing to the minister to point this out and also to point out the fact that many clubs seem not to have been invited!
I will follow your suit and contact as many local clubs as possible tomorrow. Their tactics will not beat us this time!!
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Post by Hoppy on Oct 15, 2006 22:35:21 GMT -1
Perhaps i am being too cynical!!!
Im sure that Mr Schofield has altready made up his mind - but he has a fight on his hands now.
Hoppy
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Post by rwgbridgend on Oct 16, 2006 9:23:22 GMT -1
Ogmore Angling Association received their invitation to the workshops today. The letter was dated 14th. There is no time to discuss with the committee who we will be sending as the applications need to be sent back asap. Therefore i will be filling in about 10 of these forms for various members of our committee!
Even if just we attend, think of the free food!
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Post by kwilliams on Oct 16, 2006 16:33:38 GMT -1
Guy's If you think the food is free ....think again ! Its not as it will be costed to the FER function in the scheme of life as always. The Hospitality budget for fisheries meeting at hotels over the years would have paid for additional staff many times and if the cost of hosting the FERAC meeting at Plush hotels and local hotels for LFAG meetings were actually asked for through the " Freedom of Information Act, I think forum readers would be horrified at the revelation ! No doubt it would be stated that such meetings don't have an impact on fishery revenues but the bill has to be paid somehow and as we all know the "Devil is in the fine print" FERAC members from N wales always complained that they had to travel to S.Wales more often than not, so why isn't there a permanent meeting location in Mid Wales which is equitable to all concerned and not a 2 day overnighter with grand meals and tours! This unneccessary squander has to stop and public opinion must prevail. It is a salient thought that all EA Wales main offices have the very fine and efficient electronic video conferencing links where staff and managers can globally converse all day for the cost of a few litres of fuel and is actually encouraged that all staff make use of it internally and be fully utilised at all times ! How about putting the environment first and saving some money and all meeting be held in this manner? the hotel trade won't suffer from this reduction in business but the fat mileage allowances paid most certainly will ! Who would care to disagree ??
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Post by highplains on Oct 16, 2006 16:46:31 GMT -1
Keith,
Nobody could argue with that. I think its called common sense.
Regards
Highplains
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Post by highplains on Oct 16, 2006 16:57:46 GMT -1
Rwbridgend,
You are to be congratulated for your sterling work! Keep it up and we will win.
This has now become a battle not only to save our fish, but for the right of the pubic to insist on openness and integrity from public servants and these attributes seem to be in some doubt in certain areas of the EAW. If our suspicions prove to be justified then somebody will have to be brought to book.
Certain members of the EAW ought to remember that when they get too big for their boots and things get sticky - the boots tend to come off!
We shall see.
Highplains
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Post by Gwyniadun on Oct 17, 2006 9:35:10 GMT -1
I am envious as well as being rather proud of your commitment to the cause for without this concerted effort on all fronts to date there would have been 'No meeting'.
Now comes to the fore in my mind.
'Why have meetings of this kind at all?' , it would appear that when there is a problem, 'Lets have a meeting!' to make a decision on creating a situation whereby a committee can be set up, to have meetings about setting up committee's to set up further meetings to get views and reports so that more meetings can be set up and so on.... does WAG and or Carwyn not take heed of the fact that this has already been done.
Whilst we are being totally honest and upfront with our claims one only has to do a small reccy of the past posts to realise what the outcome may be, are they bying time to allow further decline of fish stocks until a stage is reached whereby no one will be bothered any more?
This is the message has to be nailed to the mast, they have a duty to maintain and improve fisheries through statute law, they MUST adhere to this.
I have read all the past posts since these invitations went out.
I urge you to read all the posts on 'Enforcemnent' issues that have been raised and the answers given.
I reiterate we want to work with the Environment Agency and WAG to ensure a future for our rivers, the only problem is that there appears to be a void within WAG or the EA in understanding what is required.
How do you think the FERAC members feel now that WAG have taken no heed of what was said in their report? and furthermore will they take any positive action in the requirement of reinstating the posts of Enforcement Fisheries Officers.
I will be pleasantly surprised if they do, I have little faith in the present consortium and will not play their game in these so called meetings or the new word this week seems to be 'workshop'.
I do not smoke, swear, drink or tell lies...now 'Where's my feckin pipe, sheeet, I've gone and left it down the pub'.
Gwyniadun
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Post by highplains on Oct 17, 2006 10:15:57 GMT -1
Just a reminder to those wishing to attend the meetings. Today is the last day for the application form to be posted to book your place.
Please send them in.
Regards.
Highplains
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Post by Gwyniadun on Oct 17, 2006 11:02:32 GMT -1
I am in support of those that have decided to attend the meetings and copy for your information the mail that I have sent to Mr Alan Winstone EA at Bangor, today.
Dear Alan, Thank you for including me on the list circulated for the meetings in November. I have considered at length the likely outcome and have decided yet again that the writing is on the wall for all to see. There is such a lack of Fisheries Enforcement Officers presently within the EA that the management can not expect to come anywhere near reaching their obligations under the Salmon and Freshwater Fisheries Act. When this anomaly has been attended to internally within the EA please let me know. Please do not forget that I am on the side of the EA Fisheries Enforcement Officers in this, for we can only reach a satisfactory conclusion when we work together. As my view is already on record I shall not waste my or anyone else's time at meetings, I'd rather be watching the spawning streams personally for your staffing levels ensures that it is unlikely that you can adequately protect them. Yours sincerely, Gwyniadun
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Post by Hoppy on Oct 17, 2006 19:11:58 GMT -1
Faxed mine today, no wheres Denbigh!!!!
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Post by highplains on Oct 19, 2006 19:34:38 GMT -1
Gwyniadun,
If thats what you feel, so be it. We are entitled to our opinions and I hope you receive a reply that satisfies you.
It would have been nice to meet at the gathering, but there you are!
All the best.
Highplains
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Post by Diawlbach on Oct 25, 2006 8:32:27 GMT -1
It's best to keep an open mind before we attend these meetings rather than pre judge the outcome. At the very least it opens a channel for dialogue with the EA with regard to enforcement issues and apparently this year is the first for a while when the funding hasn't been cut for this area. I think Andy Schofield is a genuine guy working in job that has very tight constraints on discretionary funding, if he wants to put money into increased bailiffing he'll have to have the consultation behind him to get anything done. Andy tells me that you and your colleagues can still book a space at the workshops, Sarah Grahams email address is on the Environment Councils site here if you need to scan a completed form . www.the-environment-council.org.uk/team.htmSarahG@envcouncil.org.uk It will be interesting to see if anything comes from this exercise.
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Post by wnion on Nov 7, 2006 10:12:37 GMT -1
Enforce Meet 15 Nov Written By: Garth Roberts On Date: 6/11/2006
The EAW/ Environment Council Workshop will take place at the NATIONAL BOTANIC GARDEN OF WALES Llanarthne. Workshop to discuss the Environment Agency Wales Review of current Welsh Fishery Enforcement I thought it might be useful if I wrote to you with an outline of how the workshop you are attending will be run. As you know this review has come about as The Welsh Assembly Government (WAG) has asked the Environment Agency Wales (EAW) to carry out a "review of the Welsh fishery enforcement organisation and activities and proposals to address perceived stakeholder concerns". This arises from recommendations within the report by the Inland Fishery Stakeholder Group (IFSG) to WAG. In case you have not seen it before, a copy of the IFSG recommendations on Bailiffs and Enforcement is attached. The EAW has asked us, The Environment Council, to plan and run the six workshops around Wales. Our role is to design and run the actual workshops > so that the EAW can collect your views on enforcement and then develop the > proposals to put to WAG. EAW staff will be present at the events but their > main role is to inform and to listen. > An outline for the workshops is therefore as follows: > . Introduction to the workshop > . EAW presentation on enforcement facts and data > . A check that the issues raised in the ISFG report are still key - if not > what are the new key ones > . Your views on what would have to change to remove or reduce the key > issues > . Your views on how you/your organisation could help bring about this > change > . Next steps > At the start of the event we will give you more detail on each step. > > This is an interactive workshop to collect your views in an open and > transparent way and we will use some simple processes to deliver this aim. > The workshop will be run on the basis that individuals' views will be not > be attributed unless a) you wish them to be and/or b) it would assist the > review for them to be, in which case your permission would be sought. > The information from each workshop will be typed up in the form it is > collected and the typescript will be made available to you as soon as > practicable after the event. The information from all six workshops will > be collated and used by EAW to assist in reporting to WAG. > I apologise if this letter is arriving close to the actual event, but we > have been waiting to see how many people have said they are attending so > that I could write to you all at the same time. > If you have any questions or anything you would like to discuss in advance > of the workshop please do not hesitate to phone me. As I shall be moving > between events please call my mobile (number below), if I am unable to > take the call please leave your contact details and I shall get back to > you as soon as I can. > My colleague, Sarah, and I look forward to meeting you and gathering your > views. Yours sincerely > > Dr Steve Hill > Deputy Chief Executive > Mobile 07834258358 > P.T.O. > 212 High Holborn > London WC1V 7BF > tel 020 7836 2626 > fax 020 7242 1180 > email info@envcouncil.org.uk > www. the-envirortment-council.org.uk > ___________________________________________________ > Inland Fishery Stakeholder Group > IFSG Final 1 5/2/06 (Submitted to Welsh Assembly Government on 1 March > 2006) > > D.1. BAILIFFS & ENFORCEMENT. > No single issue has caused so much hostility towards the EA as the > apparent lack of an adequate force of full-time fishery bailiffs engaged > on active front-line enforcement work to combat illegal fishing in rivers, > estuaries and coastal waters. > D. 1.1. > The EAIEAW should now enter into a candid dialogue with its > fishery stakeholders > to explain its current enforcement strategy. This should include a > statement of the > financial, legal and other constraints under which it must now operate. > This would > then open the door to a more constructive dialogue designed to address the > special > needs and priorities of Wales, the weaknesses in the current enforcement > system and > the ways by which anglers and fishery owners can work with the EAW to > overcome > those weaknesses and help to support to the EAW in the provision of a more > efficient > and effective level of enforcement designed to meet the special needs of > Wales. > D. 1.2. ~ The 0800 Emergency Hotline number for reporting poaching and > pollution incidents > is clearly not working in Wales. The system should be thoroughly reviewed > and > consideration given to providing a hi-lingual service (preferably located > within > Wales). Response times and feedback must be improved. The EAW should set > its > own criteria for determining the 'immediate call-out' category accorded > for > determining the speed of the response to a report of illegal netting. > D. 1.3. ~ The EAW should review the feasibility of reconstituting the > former system of > recruiting a volunteer force of honorary bailiffs from within the fishery > community > in some suitable form that accommodates the safe-working and other legal > constraints under which the EA is now obliged to operate. This force would > operate > under close supervision by the EAW and its main purpose would be to > undertake > routine surveillance, habitat monitoring and other environmental work on > behalf of > the EAW, the fishery owners and the CCW (on SSSI and SAC sites). > D. 1.4. > Consideration should be given to identifying and providing the > legislative framework > and powers under which such a volunteer force of honorary bailiffs would > operate. If > it is not possible to provide such powers on a joint England & Wales > basis, WAG > should look to make such provision under the 'Framework Arrangements' for > Wales. > D. 1.5. ~ Every opportunity should be taken to improve enforcement in > estuaries and coastal > waters from pooling the manpower, equipment and other resources of the EAW > and > Sea Fisheries Committees whenever possible. [See D.3.] > D. 1.6. ~ The EA should be required to substantiate its claim that illegal > fishing for salmon is > no longer a problem: a) in absolute national terms, b) in specific > regional terms and > c) (most importantly in view of the parlous state of many salmon stocks) > in relative > terms on those many rivers that are currently failing to achieve their > scientifically > based conservation limits. > D. 1.7. ~ Future activities of EAW enforcement staff should take account > of the growing > problem of the theft of coarse fish from private waters. There is a > significant and > growing trade in 'illegally obtained coarse fish and some large specimens > (notably > carp) may fetch as much as £1000 each on the black market. > D.1.8 ~ The EAW should continue to publicise the very real risks and > potentially very > damaging practical consequences of spreading disease and parasites between > one > water and another by the illegal introduction of coarse fish species.
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