cff
Parr
Posts: 49
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Post by cff on Jul 26, 2007 11:02:28 GMT -1
Hoppy Thanks for confirming that people do need to get involved perhaps you are not going to the right meetings? Garth
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Post by Tricky on Jul 26, 2007 11:23:14 GMT -1
TO ALL ANGLERS!!! I MAKE NO APOLOGIES FOR WRITING THIS IN CAPITALS!! I HAVE STARTED AN E-PETITION AT THE FOLLOWING WEBSITE WHICH GOES LIVE WITHIN THE NEXT 5 DAYS. petitions.pm.gov.uk/listPLEASE, PLEASE , PLEASE CAN EVERYONE SIGN IT!!! I'LL POST AGAIN WHEN IT IS LIVE AND GIVE THE EXACT LINK. THEY SHOULD NOT GET AWAY WITH THIS Cheers Paul Good shout Paul - it'll be easier to post the link around by email to all angling friends that don't use this Forum Hoppy / Highplains - many thanks for bringing this to our attention. I will sign up to any other campaigns too. This is just more back door taxation, make no mistake....
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Post by Hoppy on Jul 26, 2007 11:27:31 GMT -1
To give the other side to the argument which could be used, the increases would appear to be inline with Inflation.
To clarify my personal position...
If a football supporter paid £700 per year for a Premiership season ticket, and their club was relegated to the 2nd division - would they still be made to pay £700 or would the club have to reduce the fee in order to keep supporters attending?
If there was local decline, then perhpas this point is flawed and clubs would have to look at reduction in fees, however a nationwide decline can not be the responsibilty of individual clubs, therefore does the onus fall upon those responsible for protecting them?
If catches were to increase then i would gladly pay an icreased fee.
The 2006 season saw returns drop by approximately 50% across the country. Hopefully things will get better this season.
Hoppy
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Post by Hoppy on Jul 26, 2007 13:04:40 GMT -1
Hoppy Thanks for confirming that people do need to get involved perhaps you are not going to the right meetings? Garth Fortunately there is an answer to this and i will be posting something soon. Hoppy
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Post by beanzy on Jul 26, 2007 13:45:35 GMT -1
FERAC and LFG Members give their time and considerable effort to work on our behalf. They do not often get what they want or think may be right - but they certainly do not sit at home grizzling. Think about it. Thought about it. Looked for any updates in the May, June or July mags or on the web-sites, nothing. Busy busy in their little cliques, but tell no-one about what they do? How can people get involved in these secret socities you mention, or do you have to be in the know in with the right people?. Maybe there's a website for these FERACs or LFGs or there's an umbrella site to let people know they exist? Perhaps being so keen to involve the effort of those on their waters they've asked the EA to pop a 1/4 page or a flyer in their glossy info mail-out?. Why are they not mentioned in the EA literature sent out or promoted by the clubs and fisheries associations? Is more involvement actually wanted, or would this threaten the status quo of those involved. Or is this a closed monastic sect who have taken a vow of scilence?. If the information is so readily available since the spring why are the mags not reporting this increase proposal up to now?
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Post by Hoppy on Jul 26, 2007 13:53:27 GMT -1
Gethyn Thomas (FERAC fisheries) has kindly shared this information about FERAC. This is a link to the FERAC reports that are available from www.environment-agency.gov.uk/regions/wales/163950/360074/360101/?version=1&lang=_eFurther to this i will nowe be receiving FERAC papers electronically. I will be posting these documents onto the Forum under a FERAC page. Again i have to thank Gethyn for facilitating this. ENVIRONMENT AGENCY REGIONAL FISHERIES, ECOLOGY AND RECREATION ADVISORY COMMITTEE
PAPER BY: HEAD OF FISHERIES
SUBJECT: FISHING LICENCE DUTIES FEEDBACK
FOR INFORMATION
RECOMMENDATIONCommittees are asked to note the report. 1.0 FISHERIESRod and Net Fishing Licence Duties 1.1 Committees were asked to endorse: a)The proposal to increase rod licence duties by inflation. b)The price of the junior coarse and trout rod licence to remain unchanged. 1.2 Committees were also asked to advise on: a)Whether the level of concession should be changed, for which groups and the phasing of any change. b)The proposal to increase salmon net licence duties by inflation. c)The inflationary increase to eel net licence duties. 1.3 A summary of the advice given is shown in Table 1 on the next page. Advice specific to each of the proposals is summarised in sections 1.4 to 1.9. On 24th April 2007 the FERAC meeting discussed the following. Unfortunately i can not add 'tables' to this thread, but would be happy to email the tables if people require. Rod Licence Duties1.4 All eight Committees supported an inflationary increase to the duties for the next three years. Junior Coarse and Trout Licence Duty 1.5 Five of the eight Committees supported the proposal to retain the current price of the junior coarse and trout licence. Two suggested an inflationary increase, while North West proposed a change in the minimum age to 14, with the price increased to £10 to cover the loss of income. Rod Licence Concessions 1.6 Again, all eight Committees supported the change in the rate of concession to 33% from the current 50%. Only one Committee suggested that the change be phased in over the three years. Some Committees recognised that this may cause objections but believed the 33% is still generous given concessionary rates by other organisations. Seven of the eight Committees advised that the junior salmon licence should cost the same as the junior coarse and trout licence. Salmon Net Licence Duties 1.7 Seven Committees advised that duties should be increased by inflation. North East recommended no change to current duties because of potential implications on rural communities and the current high cost of licences. Eel Net Licence Duties 1.8 All eight Committees advised on an increase in eel duties, with some support for duties to go up by more than inflation to pay for work on implementing eel management plans. 1.9 Committees fully discussed each option, and several suggestions were made in addition to the specific advice requested as follows: a) Higher duties increases the gap between those who pay and those who don’t – the Environment Agency should carry out more enforcement. b) A perceived unfair balance between rods and nets. c) Every effort should be made to reduce advertising costs. d) Increased income must be used to fund Fisheries work. Members want more transparent information on where the money goes. e) Advice that other options for junior should be considered for the future, such as a higher minimum age, or a further stepped fee, say for 17 to 21 year olds. 1.10 The feedback will be incorporated into a paper for Directors before we present our recommendations to the Board in July. We anticipate that statutory advertising will take place in late summer before submission to Ministers in England and Wales. DAFYDD EVANS Head of Fisheries Thanks again to Gethyn & CFF for letting me have this data. Hoppy
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Post by Hoppy on Jul 26, 2007 14:15:15 GMT -1
Looked for any updates in the May, June or July mags or on the web-sites, nothing. Busy busy in their little cliques, but tell no-one about what they do? How can people get involved in these secret socities you mention, or do you have to be in the know in with the right people?. Beanzy, the people i know in the Welsh FERAC are excellent people, committed to fisheries. They do really have the rivers and fish at heart, and continually challenge the EA, WAG and DEFRA. Anyone can apply to join FERAC, and if any details of vacancies arise i will post them here. Its not about Cliques and secret societies. There meetings are public, and the information available in the Public Domain. I think the problem is/has been that the information is very difficult to find on the EA website, and elsewhere. However with Gethyn's help the information will now be available here on the forum, for us all to see. Hoppy
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Post by beanzy on Jul 26, 2007 14:31:07 GMT -1
Thanks Hoppy & Gethyn, it's good to see the shortfall being patched up for Welsh information.
However the cynic in me want's to question why the EA don't want people to know how to get involved? It's always been a huge hole in their information. They'll tell you how to become a 'consumer' of fishing facilities, promote other peoples initiatives as their own successes, but heaven forbid they'd encourage the average angler to take control of their environment and ownership of activity in their own river catchments. Next we'll be telling them what to do, what to prioritise, best practices to use and bringing in our own scientists to question their assertions etc. and they can't possibly have that.
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Post by paulwhite on Jul 26, 2007 15:10:45 GMT -1
Hi All, The petition I started at the No 10 E-petition web site is now live and ready for anyone who wants to, to sign! Please click on the following link.... petitions.pm.gov.uk/RodLicences/Thanks and tight lines1 Paul
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Post by wnion on Jul 26, 2007 16:14:22 GMT -1
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Post by beanzy on Jul 26, 2007 16:54:40 GMT -1
Hopefully someone can, but it's hardly an open access method for the average angler getting involved in the managment of their local rivers. "Ideally, the successful candidate should represent regulated industries with expertise in waste."
Still they do it with a sense of irony;
"Appointees will take up their committee posts on April 1."
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Post by highplains on Jul 26, 2007 18:07:41 GMT -1
Copies of letters now available for those who wish to send them in. It will help if you email me, that way I can send the word documents rather than pasting details on a PM
Just a note on starting petitions on the government web site. These need planning. If only a few sign up it, a few hundred, it look as though we don't care. If you wish to go the petition route, then plan it months in advance and get agreement from potential participants.
I have no wish to pour cold water on the idea. Just point out that to beat the *.*. you have to play them at their own game.
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Post by highplains on Jul 26, 2007 18:15:50 GMT -1
I went for an interview in Cardiff and was seen by Andy Schofield and Dr. Graham Harris with regard to FERAC.
One of those that beat me to it was Gethyn. So the system can not be all bad.
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Post by highplains on Jul 26, 2007 18:22:49 GMT -1
The notes of the FERAC meeting for April are still not posted on the EAW site. This was the meeting at which the Fisheries Enforcement Report was tabled. This report is still not in the public domain. 4 months late and counting!
Well done though Gethyn for providing some details. Please don't be selective!
With regards
Highplains
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Post by waddington on Jul 26, 2007 19:13:22 GMT -1
I'm sure the anglers representatives who sit on these committees do an excellent job and put in a lot of effort. This does not however change the fact that any further increase in licence fees is unacceptable as far as I am concerned. Frankly if the EA's performance, particularly in regard to illegal fishing, occurred in the private sector they would be fired. We anglers, who are unhappy with the service the EA provide, have to plod on regardless and end up paying more for the privilege in future. I do resent any suggestion that I have missed the boat to complain because I was not aware of a few committee meetings taking place where this was discussed. I must be living in the dark as I have never heard of these committees. How many other people can honestly say they were aware of them and had their views canvassed? As a paying customer I feel I have every right to object to this increase. I totally resent the fact that in my opinion the EA waste my existing licence fee. Why will things be any different if I pay them anymore? Deeper pile carpets for I'm sure already plush offices is probably the answer. Phil
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Post by Hoppy on Jul 26, 2007 22:29:56 GMT -1
The notes of the FERAC meeting for April are still not posted on the EAW site. This was the meeting at which the Fisheries Enforcement Report was tabled. This report is still not in the public domain. 4 months late and counting! Well done though Gethyn for providing some details. Please don't be selective! With regards Highplains Highplains, The EA are aware about the April FERAC papers, and Gethyn has told me that they are rectifying it asap. Hoppy
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Post by clwydman on Jul 27, 2007 8:31:04 GMT -1
With regard to the petition, Highplains you are right but as it has been set up, it is vital that as many people as possible sign up. The current number is 6! this will provide the EA with evidence that anglers are not bothered not vise versa. Everyone needs to sign it and send a copy of the letter!
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Post by watchinufish on Jul 27, 2007 8:31:05 GMT -1
Put it into perspective lads, it still works out at only £1.38 a week which entitles you to fish 365 days a year anywhere in Wales or England. EA put all our licence money back into fishing none of it goes to subsidise waste or pollution work. All salmonid enforcement is subsidised by the government GIA (us the tax payer). If you want to have a go at someone have a go at DEFRA and pressurise them to increase GIA.
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Post by paulwhite on Jul 27, 2007 10:18:19 GMT -1
I hope the extra money they are getting from the new, long drawn out river level telephone service (@ 60p per minute) is also going into fishing. On average it takes 2 mins to get the Teifi level!
Call me old fashioned (which I am), but I tend to show a certain amount of scepticism when I'm told by large organisations that the increases in taxes are for our own benefit all the time!!
All river users should have to pay the increases, not just the game anglers, so come on sign the petition!!!!!
Paul :-)
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Post by clwydman on Jul 27, 2007 11:09:07 GMT -1
"Put it into perspective lads, it still works out at only £1.38 a week which entitles you to fish 365 days a year anywhere in Wales or England. EA put all our licence money back into fishing none of it goes to subsidise waste or pollution work. All salmonid enforcement is subsidised by the government GIA (us the tax payer). If you want to have a go at someone have a go at DEFRA and pressurise them to increase GIA. "
Sorry but I fundamentally disagree with this comment. I am not allowed to fish 365 days a year. There is a close season for migratory fish and rightly so. On the river I fish, the close season runs from October 17th to March 15th ish. This takes approximately 146 days out of the 365 you state. Add to that the fact that all salmon need to be returned up until June 16th must also be taken into account. Add the byelaw on our river that makes it fly only for October (which pretty much makes catching of salmon impossible due to the nature of the river I fish). That leaves just 110 days a season approximately for my particular river i.e. a season in which I have the opportunity to take a migratory fish should I wish to (that is what I am paying my licience for remember) is just 14 weeks out of 52. I am afraid your maths does not add up! When you add the cost of club fees etc. you begin to see what an expensive game it is and it is a game that gets worse year on year in terms of what you get for your money. Less bailiffs, less river maintainence etc.
I cannot see any arguement from a true angler to support an increase in the licience fee at this particular time.
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